Cover crop

[TheSeedObsesser]

By the way - if you're not planting a huge area, you might want to look for quarries around your area. We buy loads of sand and gravel from a few different quarries here. Then again there's that problem of not being able to affect the soil below how deep your tiller can reach.

 

[bobm]

I would listen to seedcorn ! In the San Juaquin Valley of Cal. the commercial orchard operators, had arid dry lands when they first arrived there. They first used landplanes to level the land, then used trenchers to make rows about 3 feet deep and about 20' apart to set dinamite there to break up the hardpans, then followed all manner of cover crops , tons of manures, other soil amendments and commercial fertilizers . Followed by installing irrigation ( sprinkler / flood irrigation systems, then the orchard trees, grape vines were planted. For my orchard and garden area... I first leveled the land then covered the area with 6" of horse manure, deep plowed the area with a plow for 12" deep, added 6" more of horse manure and disced it in ( 2 times ) . Let it overwinter, sprayed the area with Rounup to kill the weeds, then installed drip irrigation and planted the trees. Row irrigation for garden. I then planted a over crop and disced it under every spring followed with more horse manure every fall.

 

[Smart Red]

Just an aside, Black Locusts are an invasive around here. They reproduce by seed and by root runners. We have spent years trying to eradicate them from the property, unsuccessfully. They might be more trouble then they are worth.

On the other hand, being in the legume family, they are highly susceptible to herbicides at an early age.

 

[Nyboy]

I might be able to get truck loads of manure, I became friendly with a locale farmer. A dump truck was over $300 for delivery. What about planting on mound of good soil ?

 

[seedcorn]

You say it is heavy clay. Does this ground tend to stay wet? I'm of opinion that however high an established tree is, that is how far it's roots reach out.

If this ground is heavy-in AG, code for stays wet, tile, tile, tile. More important than fertilizer-either organic or commercial.

 

[Nyboy]

seedcorn are talking like french drain? In a very heavy rain might have standing water for day or 2. Summer sun bakes it to almost cement like. only place I can put a orchard.

 

[seedcorn]

Don't know French drain. I'm talking the plastic 4" tiles. Lay the tile between rows of trees 6-8' deep. They need to empty into another main tile or into a ditch. Talk to area farmers, they can show and explain better. You can use your rented backhoe or people lay that commercially with plows.

I'm afraid the water will kill your trees as they (no plant does) don't like wet roots. Wet soils kill bacteria except for the bad disease carrying rots.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Have you had the soil tested? Your county extension agent should be able to help with that so you know exactly what you are working with. I thought mine had a lot of clay because of the way it turns soft and mushy when it gets wet and it will form a hard crust but it turns out to be a silty loam. It drains well.

I suggest you do the percolation test @Smart Red talked about. Your extension agent can give you info on that or you can check online to see what the results mean. You dig a hole and see how fast the water drains. I did that here and found out I had great drainage. That totally confused me (not hard to do) until I found out what I had was not clay but a silty loam. It may be that the drainage is totally unsuitable for fruit trees without a lot of work or you may be OK.

If drainage is not great but on borderline you might want to plant on a hillside instead of in a bottom so the water has some place to drain to. Another advantage to planting on a hillside instead of a bottom is that cold air flows downhill. You can often be a few degrees colder at the bottom of a hill than on top. That difference may be enough to stop a killing frost when the trees are in bloom.

Hardpan comes from plowing or working the soil, especially clay, for a while. If the ground has not been worked much you probably don't have hardpan. The area deeper that the plow gets compacted so water cannot pass through. The water stands on top of that soil instead of draining away. French drains or drainage ditches can help get water away as long as it has some place to drain to. Another trick is to build chimneys. Dig holes deep enough to break through the hardpan and get to the better draining soil beneath. Fill those holes with gravel so the water can flow through. How many chimneys you need will depend on how well the soil under the hardpan drains among other things.

 

[seedcorn]

For those with smart phones, there is app that tells you what soil types you are standing on. Fun to play with. Some how it can take gps coordinates to federal soil types. I'm sure it isn't 100% but shot gun close

 

[bobm]

Seed... that GPS app would go crazy of my ranchin Central Cal. at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. The soils here change in meandering swirls about every 10' to 20' from black to brown to red to yellow to white soils as well as salt deposits depending on errotion from the mountains anywhere from last winter to millions of years ago. This land was open range land that has NOT seen a plow for eons of time and it has hardpans from 4" to a foot thick from on the surface to 5 feet down. When we first bought this property, I had 3 D-9s deep rip to 3' down the entire property , then disk, grade, disk again, level to grade, had soil test done, applied proper soil amendments/ fertilizers then I planted pasture grasses for my horses. Later I used horse manure for the orchard / garden area.