Discombobulated

[digitS']

The spread of polio is not contained everywhere. Therefore, public healthcare measures are taken short of building more iron lungs.

Some diseases spread by inadequate hygiene are now rare in the more industrialized countries because of public efforts. Yes, that involves politics.

Cholera is one illness that we would mostly need to be concerned with when traveling abroad. If populations with limited scientific education find any strong concern and measures taken to be surprising and there may well be resistance -- would that be surprising? Even with a cholera epidemic, "About 1 in 10 people with cholera will experience severe symptoms." LINK

Only 1 in 10? So, 90% of the folks walk away from the experience having had few or no symptoms? Why the disruption over septic systems?

 

[Gardening with Rabbits]

I think this is a really great example @Ridgerunner within the context of this topic. If a person empties dangerous waste into a drinking water supply or onto the food supply, to me, that doesn't constitute possible harm, that constitutes actual harm, and measurable harm with biological samples testing. For me, it becomes a question of certainty versus possibility, which is completely absent in the present covid measures.

I have not gotten covid, and I may or may not. Does owning a septic system, given the nature of associated disposal issues, make the owner an automatic agent of harm because they might dispose of their waste improperly? Some people dispose of their waste safely and properly. Should owners of septic systems/holding tanks suffer punitive measures because - just by having a septic system - they pose risk to the safety of other people? Actual harm, and risk is separate. Owners of such waste management systems will always pose a risk, it's a practical impossibility to eliminate the reality that someone might choose to dispose of their waste improperly. Much like energy transport - there will always be risks. Should we forbid it's transport; some would like to because they dislike the associated risk. (Oil spills, contamination issues, Lac Megantic etc) Would it cause a different, and indeed more certain harm, to deny people that same dangerously transported energy?

So my concerns surround the question and process of eliminating certain risks; is it feasible, reasonable or even possible. I think freedom has built in risks and there is no getting away from it. Freedom of speech, to bear arms, and so on, disappeared here under the auspices that they pose 'a risk to someone else'. The sovereignty of countries itself is a risk, if all countries are attached to the same globe. Even without the presence of massive weaponry, so long as air and water and wind are mobile, there is risk of one to harm another. But then the question arises, do you eliminate sovereignty to eliminate this risk. How far does one go in eliminating risk, befre eliminating the risk is harmful? It becomes a complicated matter to sort through on both macro and micro levels.

As far as hospitalizations and associated data like that goes, I refrain from concluding about it, especially in Canada. Mostly because the media has been caught presenting false information so many times, as independent journalists continue to reveal. It's difficult to know the truth to falsehood ratio. Then there is all the tremendous censorship of nurses & doctors here, like Patrick Philips and many others who are forbidden from adding their voice to the discussion because they don't follow the scripted government narrative. And censorship of people trying to tell their stories of being vaccinated and harmed. There has been a concerted effort to create a frenzy of panic. We have such federally controlled media here that many of us jokingly call CBC the 'Ministry of Propaganda', and many have started calling the country 'Chinada'.

I agree with all you said. A person who puts poison in the water has an intent of murder. Like car accidents, you have a wreck driving as careful as you can, but kill somebody who walked in front of your car, you did not do that on purpose. Should we get rid of all cars? The town here is going to put chlorine in the water, which to me is a poison, but they are doing it for our own good, so I can drink it or I can buy bottled water, my choice. You are right about the news. They are helping to divide this country. To think it is okay to put half the country in quarantine or fire them from jobs, or prevent going to the store to buy groceries is an intent to harm and it will not work. It is as dangerous as the north and south and the Civil War. I listened to a news thing this morning and it was about doctors and nurses coming forward in Canada telling of what they think is wrong about vaccines and afraid they will lose their jobs. Doctors are not being allowed to speak their minds and in this country too.

 

[Gardening with Rabbits]

Here is a little more about the Scarlet Fever...the pathogen that causes it is still around. It has never been eliminated. It no longer infect numbers of people as it once did not because of vaccination - there isn't a vaccine for Scarlet Fever. The reason it is so rare is that people have improved their standard of living. Hygiene is better, and nutrition is MUCH better. We've learned a great deal about increasing our immune function. My son contracted it, but none of us got it - me, DH or DD. He went to school with it, because we didn't know he had it. And it can be very serious. But nobody he was exposed to got it. My son got it because he was suffering from a health crisis that severely compromised his immunity. After getting away from mainstream allopathic medicine, we restored his health entirely and now he's doing great. In a way he didn't get Scarlet Fever because of Scarlet Fever, he got it because of an irregularity in his immune function.

I agree with you. Life itself is a risk. The human immune system is the most powerful form of 'vaccination' in the world, if we support it.

Been writing for awhile a piece on covid. Thought I'd share it here.

I think, maybe, one of the constructive ways that people with various perspectives can look at the present situation is to think deeply, instead of specifically. When they don't agree on what constitutes reliable evidence the dialogue inevitably fails, because of the ensuing conflict based on source & fact credibility. But, I think if you can transcend covid specific data that either side might view as politicised or fraudulent, the underlying principles can be a meeting place.

Here's a take on covid with no covid statistics, or covid data.. Thanksgiving 2019 I was having a pre - dinner walk with my 1 year old dog Tucker. I was enjoying the pretty fall decorations and quaint homes. On my way back, in my peripheral vision, I sensed a pair of eyes on me. Instinctually I scanned, and rescanned, eventually seeing the silhouette of a very large dog standing on the porch of a house I was walking past. At first I thought it might be a statue because it was so strangely still. Within seconds though he was moving like an apparition toward us, down the steps and onto the street, his footfalls and presence utterly soundless. I remember distinctly the process my mind went through at that moment -what's happening-is something bad happening-no nothing bad is happening-yes this is bad-no it isn't, yes, no. My mind's quest for hope and my guttural hunch started dueling. The next thing I knew my dog and I were both brought down, and what had been a deafening silence turned into the most incredible soundtrack of fury I'd ever heard in my life. I grew up watching Mutual of Omaha's 'Wild Kingdom', and this was totally different than even the lion episodes. Much of what happened after this point is a fuzzy jumble. I remember a rotating awareness of things in what felt like a dream state - I need to save my dog - I can't see my dog- this is the hugest dog I have ever seen - very white teeth - start strangling the dog - strangling isn't working. The Silver Bullet sound reel, and the feel of his shaggy hair in my fingers, as I tightened them around his neck, stand out most today. I am a pescatarian, afterall.

I did not know at the time that I was screaming, but apparently I was. This alerted the owners to the fact that their dog had escaped it's chain link enclosure. Needless to say, I'm still here, and so is my dog, and neither of us is permanently disfigured. But it has cost me in money, and in other ways related to the life my family and I previously enjoyed with our dog. My dog will never be the same again. My main response to this experience was to try to figure out what happened. I haven't had a dog in decades. Is this a reality I might face again? I committed to learning about all things dog related (and prevention), particularly when it became clear to me this may not be an isolated event. My dog was attacked, tragically, two more times by off leash dogs within the year, and we had even more close calls. My parents also within that year, in their 80's, had another elderly couple over to their home and the same thing happened while entertaining in their backyard. Their lady friend was taken down along with her small dog, by a retriever that appeared out of nowhere, and disappeared just as suddenly. Her dog didn't fare as well as mine, but the lady was ultimately okay though she was mauled.

I hired a dog training expert in my area, spoke with by-law officers for animal control. Technically, you cannot protect yourself from a dog here, because you cannot carry weapons of any kind. You must instead call 911 and get law enforcement to help. (This brings into question for me gov. concern for my safety - but that's a separate issue.) I started piecing together a picture of what I was dealing with. Let me preface what I'm about to share, by saying that I love my dog, and I love dogs (and animals) in general. I think a dog is one of the finest companions that mankind has ever known. My dog is a part of my family. But when you start looking into it, Great White sharks look like Bambi compared to the damage dogs put on humans the world over. Aside from venomous snakes and mosquitoes, dogs kill more humans than any other animal on earth. 35,000 a year - that we know of. In the US, 4.5 million people a year are attacked by dogs. Almost 1000 people a day go into an ER to get treatment for dog attack injuries. The fatalities are small, relatively speaking, but they are notable. It's definitely a bad way to go. Adding to this, there has apparently also been a 300% increase in dog attacks since 2020.

This is something to consider in light of the time in which we're living, and the discussion about risks people's choices pose to other people. The subject descends into all aspects of our lives, from the beverages we drink to the pets people choose. My street alone has 2 'red zone' dogs, one which once escaped. Does the law have a right to confiscate/terminate their dogs because they might escape and harm me or someone else? It would make me feel better for sure, but would it be right? Many dogs qualify as potential safety risks, especially to the people who don't feed them. The question then becomes what might taking punitive action against anyone doing or having something that could be a risk lead to? How would automobiles fit into this? Or alcohol? I'm not attempting to present any particular point of view here, but do a kind of surgical exploration of a complex matter. Is it wise to enact punitive measures against someone based on what they might do or what might happen? Up until now, legal punishment could not be pre-emptive. You could not in the context of law punish someone for what they haven't done yet, or what they might do. A speedometer gauge could then be cause for punitive measures; a person might speed or drive irresponsibly and might harm or kill someone while doing that. Approximately
5, 419, 000 car crashes every year. Innumerable people have been killed by reckless drivers, or DUI drivers in the last half century. Any number of things fall under the umbrella of potential risks people pose to one another.

Conceivably, I could get covid. If I were to get it, I might inadvertently pass it on. But I also might not. I may never get it. Millions of people have not contracted covid, many more than those that have gotten it. There is no way to predict outcomes such as this; surely recommended precautions count for something, as they come highly enforced. That's two layers of only possibility. (Most interestingly, and importantly, you can still catch covid, still pass it on, having been vaccinated.) If we start down the road of penalizing people for what they might do, the harm they might cause, it opens up a whole world of legal complexities. There would basically be no limit to enacting punitive measures on anyone for any reason, because so long as one possesses a body that is capable of holding a weapon, has a car, a dog, a chainsaw, a hammer, septic system etc. All fall under the umbrella of possible threat. It is notable too that historically in the era of eugenics, forced sterilizations was once an acceptable means of pre-emptively protecting society. The offspring of an 'undesirable person' was considered a significant and unreasonable risk to the safety of the 'public good' as a book espousing the topic once described it.

Then there is the question of risk in the other direction. Even putting aside reports of vaccine injuries and deaths, because that would inevitably lead again in the direction of debate about source reliability, we know a few things about medical protocols in general. That there isn't one that is safe for everyone - not even antibiotics, which has saved incalculable lives. For some people, antibiotics are fatal. Then there are antibiotic resistant pathogens - 750, 000 fatalities worldwide/year & rising - having evolved as a result of the lifesaving antibiotics themselves. Taking antibiotics, then, even poses risks to others in the long term. Clearly, long term effects are worth considering rather seriously. There are many allopathic tools that can go either way. Some are saved by surgery, some die during it. What is safe for one, is not safe for another, even things as seemingly benign as milk, eggs, fish and aspirin - all in the top 5 of anaphylactic triggers.

Might losing freedoms - any of them - be a greater risk than keeping them and the costs that come with them? Even when the cost might be lives? The 2nd amendment comes to mind for example. So long as people have guns, they will be used by people to harm other people. It's inevitable. The amount of lives saved by firearms must be calculated in as well, though not so easy to provide data on. The heart of the covid issue is the quest for perfect solutions in an imperfect world, without wanting any trade offs. Sometimes, solutions are worse than the problems they are supposed to solve. Gun laws are often debated after a school shooting, but drowning accounts for many more fatalities in kids (about 4,000 vs. 54 per year). Should pools and beaches be banned? Dr. Thomas Sowell once said that 'the mark of maturity is being able to weigh one thing against another, in an imperfect world'. In the case of DDT, after Rachel Carson's infamous book, countries around the world ceased to employ it, even those that had been using it in relatively small amounts. Ending the use of DDT may have been a good thing, it may have been a bad thing - that isn't the question or answer. The fact is it was the means by which malaria was being controlled in Africa and ending the use of DDT ultimately resulted in the death of millions of people. The death toll has been so high, that in 2006 the WHO (no matter what you think of them) began recommending the use of DDT once again for use in people's homes. Even more, the WHO now states that DDT never posed any risk to human health, or the environment. That kind of switch up gives one pause, considering the lives that were and are at stake. And brings to mind the idea of powerful institutions imposing solutions on people that seem good & righteous, but may be incorrect, or dangerous. Institutions that pay no price for being wrong. Solutions that 'feel good' may have consequences that don't.

For anyone interested in the topic of 'dangerous safety' here 's an interesting article written in 2002.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2002-08-02-0208010717-story.html

You thought this out well and all true. The dog story is something I have been thinking about. Almost daily there is a baby or an owner or someone walking being killed by a dog. I have had dogs go through my yard. I have wondered what I would do if I was attacked or one of my granddaughters out in the yard. I would choke it is exactly what I have thought in my mind. DD goes for walks with the girls. I am terrified of it. She says no dogs around, but they appear, just like you said out of no where. People, but not all people, have no sense when it comes to dogs. They take them for walks when 100 degrees outside or put them in the back of a truck in the sun or in the rain. They do not have good fences and they trust them because it is their family member, but a new baby comes or they get out of the fence and a totally different animal. We cannot live a totally safe life. Somebody leaves a loaded gun in their house and a child gets killed is not a reason to take guns from everybody else. I do not own a gun and I think people make a lot of stupid mistakes with guns, but I do not want to force guns to be taken away. They will just have other stupid things they do. People leaving their kids in hot cars. I read something this morning a toddler playing in a car and the window killed the child. Why would anybody let a toddler play in a car with it on or with the key anywhere that child could touch?

 

[Gardening with Rabbits]

How much is the risk of dying on a commercial airline flight?

Should we as passengers be concerned about it? I suppose so. Certainly, we have and need regulatory agencies to control this industry.

The US transportation office reports that that Domestic flights alone, carried more than 811 million passengers in 2019. DOT Wikipedia shows 10 fatalities that year on commercial airlines link .

I tell my kids I will not fly and they just look at me, but some people are afraid of dying of an illness or murdered and of course I am that too, but I can control not dying in a plane. Way up there knowing the thing will eventually hit the ground. Long time to think about it. I quit driving on the interstate. I do not trust my driving or others and my dad told me that you can control a car 55 if you have a blow out but higher than that, you will lose control. Well, I can think of better ways. My brother was driving 60 in his company truck on the interstate coming home from Spokane, had a blow out, truck rolled, totaled the truck. Police said he was lucky to be alive. I would rather have a blow out and go off in the ditch and not rolling end over end.

 

[Gardening with Rabbits]

It is a topic I'd prefer not to descend to deeply into into, but not all people believe vaccines effectively ended epidemics. Allopathic medicine, as a whole, has a dark history. There is much information out there to suggest it's possible. One of my actual neighbours died, long before covid, of the shingles vaccine. And that was confirmed by the physician himself. Many people have contracted vaccine sourced pathogens throughout history.

This is a piece from ABC Health, though (disclaimer!) I remain highly skeptical of all information contained in the mainstream media such as this - but the info says they have to vaccinate against the polio vaccine.

LONDON -- Four African countries have reported new cases of polio linked to the oral vaccine, as global health numbers show there are now more children being paralyzed by viruses originating in vaccines than in the wild.

In a report late last week, the World Health Organization and partners noted nine new polio cases caused by the vaccine in Nigeria, Congo, Central African Republic and Angola. Seven countries elsewhere in Africa have similar outbreaks and cases have been reported in Asia. Of the two countries where polio remains endemic, Afghanistan and Pakistan, vaccine-linked cases have been identified in Pakistan.

I am not vaccinated for anything, nothing. My dad made that decision because he had a friend who got his children vaccinated for polio. One died. I guess in 1955 when I was born there was the Cutter Incident. I never thought anything about it until I had children. I never lived in fear. I actually never thought about vaccines. My kids are not vaccinated. When DD was born I had papers brought home from the hospital and I read and it said to warn people with immune system problems if they were going to change diapers after being vaccinated. I am not sure which vaccine it was, but it was a live virus and would be shed in the diaper and dangerous to people with autoimmune problems. We got chickenpox from my husband getting shingles. The cancer center was vaccinating patients and my husband did not get vaccinated. He got shingles and the nurse said very strange, we have a lot of patients with shingles and I said well I could get chickenpox from this and she said no. You have been vaccinated and I said no I have not and she said well then you have already had the chickenpox and I said I have not nor my kids. She touched my husbands back, the door knob, everything in that room with her attitude nobody is going to get sick. well she was wrong. I later looked it up and that vaccine was a live virus and the insert warned to stay away for so long from pregnant women or young children because it could cause chickenpox in unvaccinated people. My neighbor in Iowa had 3 kids, one was a girl with red hair. They got their vaccines for something and she started with grand mal seizures. My neighbor in Idaho had 3 daughters with red hair. Her youngest was born a little premature, so they put off the vaccines until 3 months. She died that very day. She read and looked into it and found there was a connection with red hair and I think she said premature babies. Not sure if true, but if I was vaccinating my baby, I would like a doctor to tell me there is this or that chance and let me decide if that was worth my child dying. There was another story of 3 kids dying in a town around here all vaccinated same clinic same batch of vaccines. They call it SIDS and just like this covid vaccine, said oh, people will die, but it is a coincidence because they were going to die anyway. Not good enough.

 

[digitS']

Here's a story about me. So, be forewarned :

I was vaccinated against both polio and small pox. I have had a flu vaccine every year since I was about 40 years old. Okay, the "big iggy," as one TEG member said about me, can be preformed .

This is something I posted in June: "The American Medical Association says 96 percent of practicing physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19.

'Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated,' the AMA.

Nearly all U.S. doctors are vaccinated. Time to follow their lead.

Physicians can make a persuasive statement to cut COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy when they tell patients that they themselves have been vaccinated.

www.ama-assn.org

 

[digitS']

That the healthcare recommendations of thousands of agencies worldwide are considered by some as a global lie surprises me.

Ireland's Health Services reported October 5th that over 87% of that nation's people have been vaccinated for the C-19 virus. You can read some of their healthcare recommendations and news here: LINK

 

[digitS']

And, for something really different!

It's 32°f (0C) with nearly 60 minutes left for the temperature to drop farther below freezing here at home. 6:05AM ... or, is it ... 5:05AM, Standard Time.

It's 7 October ... I think

DST will continue another month, until 7 November

That is the latest date for setting our clocks to ST, in this 12 year epoch. The 12 year cycle began in 2005, when Congress decided that the working class could all drive to their jobs an hour earlier than before and have more days to go out and spend money during the remaining daylight, after putting in whatever overtime might be required. Of course, kids would be waiting for the school buses in the October darkness ...

Here's an idea. Why not have a winter Lag Time for those living north of 45° latitude? Move the clocks back from Standard Time in December! Give that about 3 months. It would allow the highway crews time to clear snow and make the winter commute safer with some morning light in the sky.

Steve

 

[flowerbug]

And, for something really different!

It's 32°f (0C) with nearly 60 minutes left for the temperature to drop farther below freezing here at home. 6:05AM ... or, is it ... 5:05AM, Standard Time.

It's 7 October ... I think

DST will continue another month, until 7 November

i can't wait until they stop messing around with resetting the clocks twice a year.

until then i live in my own time-zone.

 

[flowerbug]

the state of Michigan is not fading in new cases yet (but supposedly the national trend is now downwards), still on the uptrend for hospitalisations, but perhaps we have topped out on the new case amounts, we'll see what the next few weeks bring...

they have not reported lately on what percentage of those hospitalized and dying are the unvaccinated, but if the previous reports are still holding up that is a large percentage of the numbers below and sadly most of these could have been avoided.

9/10	1,452	390	180	882	63,900	20,506	2.27%	1,624	27
9/13	1,490	406	191	893	61,500	20,535	2.42%	1,610	26
9/15	1,509	405	184	920	68,100	20,597	2.22%	1,758	26
9/17	1,442	385	189	868	73,700	20,665	1.96%	1,760	30
9/20	1,492	400	201	891	71,000	20,700	2.10%	1,445	33
9/22	1,545	415	209	921	77,000	20,781	2.01%	1,862	33
9/24	1,557	423	187	947	83,000	20,866	1.88%	1,723	35
9/27	1,602	422	193	987	79,000	20,898	2.03%	1,645	35
9/29	1,671	436	199	1,036	85,700	20,998	1.95%	1,854	40
10/1	1,667	436	217	1,014	93,700	21,077	1.78%	2,200	41
10/4	1,782	468	238	1,076	88,300	21,139	2.02%	1,647	43
10/6	1,857	484	241	1,132	95,900	21,231	1.94%	2,052	44