Double-Dug vs. No-Dig

ninnymary

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HeChicken, I tried putting straw down in order to make the dirt look nicer (not see the poop) but it turned very hard. It was alot of work when I tried turning it over. I live in a mild winter climate and I thought it was gonna work and look great. Like pretty dry straw with chickens happily walking around. :) What did I do wrong? I did throw in some cracked corn daily.

Mary
 

catjac1975

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I've never planted a cover crop before so have been researching them quite a bit recently but now I'm confused again (happens easily) :/

My understanding of a cover crop was that you plant it in an empty garden bed after the crop has been harvested, let it grow and till it in after only a few weeks, before it sets seed but Cat, it sounds like you just leave it over the winter and then till it in the spring? When I first read that, I thought you must be in a milder climate than I am but I'm guessing MA is colder than where I am. How does it stand up to being snowed and iced on for several months?

Steve - got it. Annual Rye and not perennial. But even then, you are saying it is hard to kill?

Hosspak :lol: about the unicorn poop. The 8" of coop bedding? That is just since November. Since then we've been too snowed under to clean the coop and add the bedding to the garden but it will be a priority as soon as the weather warms a little. I've broken all the rules when it comes to keeping poultry, as my coop is 10x10 but houses around 100 birds. I get away with it because I have no run - so they have several acres to free-range during the day and only use the coop to sleep, eat and lay their eggs. So in the summer it can take 6 months to build up the bedding that high, but this time of year it builds up much faster. But I would really recommend to you that you consider going a little deeper than 2-3". The idea behind DLM is that the bedding will start to compost in place but that doesn't happen until it gets that bit deeper - 6-8" is optimum. What I do is start with one bale of straw on the concrete floor of the coop, and after only a short time they have pooped enough that it is time to add a second bale. All I have to do is cut the wire of the bale and spread the flakes around the coop - they do the rest in their search for wheat seeds remaining on the stems and within hours, the straw is fluffy and spread evenly throughout the coop - far better than I could have ever done it. After that, each day I sprinkle a little BOSS on top of the bedding. In their effort not to miss a single seed, they turn the bedding over again. Every single day. Once the bedding has absorbed as much poop as it can - i.e., when it reaches "saturation point", I add another bale of straw. And continue with the BOSS. As I said, my layer is now about 8" but when they turn it over and start to scratch below the surface, you can see that the bottom already looks more like dirt than it does chicken poop and straw. The other advantage to the DLM method in a cold climate is that the composting process produces heat so the bedding is not only soft and spongy for them to land on when they jump off the roosts, but it contains a little warmth as well.
The winter rye grows all winter. We planted in in late october and I thought it was too late, and it was not. Where we left it into late spring it grew quite tall and had to be mowed first. We had it in a new daylily bed and it was plowed under as we needed more space. A little was left into the heat of the summer. It did not flourish then but it was still alive. Eventually it was all tilled under and decomposed nicely. But there are many different kinds. Experiment to see what works well for you.
 

canesisters

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I haven't been following - just skimmed over the last few posts - but I had an idea (happens sometimes).
Why not use veggies as a cover crop? I mean, something that likes cool but will die in cold. Like.... spinach or some other green? Plant as soon as the warm crops are gone and just leave it. Pick at it for salads, etc till it's just all wilted and gone. Then till the poor, mushy, long since frozen and dead plants in the super early spring?
Just an idea - thought I'd toss it out
 

bobm

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HeChicken, I tried putting straw down in order to make the dirt look nicer (not see the poop) but it turned very hard. It was alot of work when I tried turning it over. I live in a mild winter climate and I thought it was gonna work and look great. Like pretty dry straw with chickens happily walking around. :) What did I do wrong? I did throw in some cracked corn daily.

Mary
If you used rice straw, it decomposes very slowly and if one mixes it with a clay soil, it makes very good bricks. (Google the building instructions for building one's own mud brick homes).
 

bobm

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In the Central Valley of Cal. we have a hardpan at or just below the surface and several kinds of clay soils as well as only about 8" of rain that falls from late Nov. to mid March. One of my neighbors farms 360 Acres of winter wheat. Every spring he plows under 1/2 of the crop acreage as green manure while the wheat is still green and the seed is in the dough stage. (He alternates the 1/2 sides) Then at harvest time when he harvests the other half, his harvester broadcasts the stems onto the land. Then in the fall he discs the entire 360 acres and drills the seeds in for a new crop. Another person raises field crops on 200 acres in the area. He grows a tall variety ( mid thigh + height ) of Barley as a cover crop. In early spring he deep plows the green Barley under as a green manure while the Barley seed is still in the green dough stage . Then plants the row crops with very few weeds during the crops' growth.
 

HEChicken

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HeChicken, I tried putting straw down in order to make the dirt look nicer (not see the poop) but it turned very hard. It was alot of work when I tried turning it over. I live in a mild winter climate and I thought it was gonna work and look great. Like pretty dry straw with chickens happily walking around. :) What did I do wrong? I did throw in some cracked corn daily.

Mary
Oh gosh, it would be so hard to tell the difference as there are so many factors. One would be how many chickens you have on it, I think. When I put a bale in, the straw is still in very long pieces but the chickens scratching through breaks it up. I don't ever try to turn mine, myself - I let the birds do all the work. Also, I don't add more straw until the layer they are working is completely saturated. When it reaches the point that I throw BOSS in and they work all day retrieving it and it STILL looks full of poop - then it is time for the next bale. At that point, the layer they were working gets buried under the fresh straw. When I throw in the BOSS they are now turning over only this new layer. The old layer is left to sit and largely decompose, protected by the new layer.

When it is time to clean it out, I use a snow shovel. I've found that slides in and out most easily, and allows me to pick up more with each shovelful than other shovels. I request the help of my teenage son or daughter and we take it in turns to fill our lawn cart with material and wheel it up to the garden and dump it. I am always surprised by how fast this job is completed. When we start it seems a formidable amount of bedding but it rarely takes more than an hour before we are scraping out the last of it from a 10x10 coop.
 

baymule

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@HEChicken please post a picture of a snow shovel-never seen one and wondering if it would be better than the wide poop scoop shovel I use for cleaning out the coop/run. ;)
 

ninnymary

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HeChicken, I have 5 chickens. When I tried to scoop it up like you, that's when it was very hard. I admit I didn't layer as much as you. It was starting to get smelly so I wanted to scrape it off. I use rice straw if that makes any difference and my soil is sandy.

Mary
 
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