Fires in the West

[flowerbug]

Now wait a minute, Flowerbug. As the drought continued, the feds charged more and more for water for the farmers, the Fed operated reservoirs were dropping in acre feet every day, and the farmers finally has to lay fallow to 1000's of acres of farmland. Some farms went belly up over time. Day laborers were laid off. Towns lost revenue. Land has sunk in inches. Aquifers have shrunk. Wells have gone dry. I know. I lived there.

The Hetch Hetchy and the other humongous reservoirs were drying up and we humans in many urban areas were put on a plan to conserve water. All of my shower water went into Lowes buckets and was tossed into the yard for foundation plants. We had a tiny patch of grass. We had to conserve and conserve. Lack of water is one of the reasons I and my Native California Husband left our state.

Then in 2016, the rains and snow came. We had snow melt, which is where the majority of the water comes from for the West. Snow melt. The reservoirs filled up. Conservation was no longer mandated, but the majority of humans continued to conserve as they had learned to.

Then the 2017 and 2018 winter...no snow little rain. Farmers were put on allotment. Humans were not. Farmers couldn't afford to buy the water from the Feds. Alternative irrigation methods were invested in, but not all farmers have the deep pockets to "try" something new. Micro drips for trees; underground irrigation for row crops; drones for farm monitoring; etc.

This situation that the drought put the West in was preceded by decades and decades of mismanagement and politics of our Federal Govt. Greedy people wanting water for growing communities, not for farmland.

I don't know how the West can continue to be the Fresh Veggie Salad Capital for the US if water isn't released on a greater scale and less costly method than it is now.

unfortunately the statistics don't show what you write above... the cities did cut back their use of water, but the farms didn't cut back in a similar amount. these are facts from the actual agencies involved.

the other fact is the shrinking ground as you note. you don't have that happening if you're not overpumping ground water...

i was glad to hear that the whole population of California finally said that "enough is enough." and passed the ground water legislation that they did. but they made it far enough into the future that it won't be helping many for quiet a long time. in the mean-time you can see the farming lobby trying to scrape up every way they can to turn those rules around to take even more water from the rivers, etc. all in the while crying about the damage the "environmentalists" are doing to their lives, but you'd not ever catch them saying they perhaps are responsible for what they're doing (which they are) or the conditions they find themselves in.

if i had a shallow well that served my use for 20 or more yrs and then someone came in next door and pumped so much groundwater that the well no longer worked wouldn't you think that is just basically wrong? that the well owner who was living within their means suddenly has to pay thousands of $ to get water back and then it is likely the over pumper next door has much more $ to dig a much deeper bigger well that the personal small house owner can't ever keep up until it's all gone for everyone. the extractor has the use of more $ because they are abusing their environment, but they've never had to compensate the people they've ruined in the process nor have they had to restore the rivers they've stopped from flowing (due to the lack of groundwater that used to be available that is now gone)...

if you look around you find that people are fighting for the wild rivers and returning the fish populations and having functional rivers again, but it's a long hard fight. i wish them all luck and support every one of them.

i also support farmers who live within their means and aren't so greedy that they won't help out the surrounding environment. the ones that aren't deserve to be put out of business ASAP.

 

[flowerbug]

You may NOT realize it, but these moron farmers are the ones feeding the moron city people.

You may NOT realize it, but it is these very same moron farmers that grow and provide food to the city people .

i realize it very well, that it is the farmers who use most of the water to do what they do. instead of using the water to grow seasonal vegetables on land they can fallow when the water isn't there they increased what is called hard demand by planting trees which require irrigation no matter what. they're learning the folly of their ways perhaps, but i consider them idiots for doing it. just as i'd consider myself an idiot for building a house in a flood plain without taking the chances of flood into consideration. (note, i didn't build this place here or pick the lot, but it's not a place i would have picked myself... )... or if i built a house in the woods and didn't take into consideration the risk of wildfires (getting back to the topic of this thread after all), if i weren't pushing for the area to keep the brush down and to get rid of the high fire intense damage risk wouldn't that be a sign of idiocy to you? it sure would be to me.

people will still be fed from such seasonal vegetables but there is a lack of production in off years when the water isn't available. it's not like there aren't other regions in the country that grow things and we do have transportation to ship things around.

the only reason things are as bad as they are is that the farmers chased the $ in nut crops and vineyards or fruit trees but they've done it by over-drawing their ground water supplies to the point now where the rest of the people of the state said "Hey, this is wrong." it's about time and long overdue IMO.

 

[flowerbug]

Thankfully some agencies have changed their policies about fighting an out of control fire at all costs, lessening the danger to fire fighters.

However, after so many years of suppression the fires that do burn, burn much hotter and last longer doing unimaginable harm to those areas, that might not see recovery in a persons lifetime.

errors have consequences. reality can be tough. it's sad, but just facts on the ground. same for those people who built by the volcano in Hawaii.

 

[bobm]

Knock knock , hello ... do you even realize that you have been brainwashed by those that live in la la land ?

 

[Nyboy]

What number of people do the greedy farms employ ? Friends tell me it is not easy finding work when unemploied

 

[Rhodie Ranch]

There is an organic blue berry farm here in our county. The farmer has an estimate of 10 million of which 1.7 million have been harvested so far (Oregon produces 100 million lbs a year). The day labor crew left for a higher paying job. He now has almost 8 million lbs rotting on the bushes. NOBODY wants to pick. Its very hard labor and only the migrant farm workers, many of whom are illegal, want to work that hard.

Oregon min wage is $10.25 a hour. Harvest wages average $12.50 an hour. Unemployment in OR is 4.1%. UE in Grants Pass is 6.1%

Blueberries are rotting on the bush.

 

[bobm]

i realize it very well, that it is the farmers who use most of the water to do what they do. instead of using the water to grow seasonal vegetables on land they can fallow when the water isn't there they increased what is called hard demand by planting trees which require irrigation no matter what. they're learning the folly of their ways perhaps, but i consider them idiots for doing it. just as i'd consider myself an idiot for building a house in a flood plain without taking the chances of flood into consideration. (note, i didn't build this place here or pick the lot, but it's not a place i would have picked myself... )... or if i built a house in the woods and didn't take into consideration the risk of wildfires (getting back to the topic of this thread after all), if i weren't pushing for the area to keep the brush down and to get rid of the high fire intense damage risk wouldn't that be a sign of idiocy to you? it sure would be to me.

people will still be fed from such seasonal vegetables but there is a lack of production in off years when the water isn't available. it's not like there aren't other regions in the country that grow things and we do have transportation to ship things around.

the only reason things are as bad as they are is that the farmers chased the $ in nut crops and vineyards or fruit trees but they've done it by over-drawing their ground water supplies to the point now where the rest of the people of the state said "Hey, this is wrong." it's about time and long overdue IMO.

We purchased 20 acres in the arid high desert open rangeland type of land that grew mostly tumbleweeds in the central valley of Cal. We drilled a water well to the depth of 29 feet that procuces 152 gallons of water per minute because we were fortunate to tap into a ( now filled in with silt erosion from the mountains over eons) prehistoric creek bed. Before we got there the carrying capacity was ONE cow . Now , the carrying capacity is 5 cows plus their calves. Meanwhile, just a mile West one has to drill at least 300' to 500' to yield 4 gal. per minute IF the water does NOT have a high percentage of salt on over 100,000 acres so it is undrinkable and not suitable to water a garden. What are those people to do ? That is why the dam and irrigation canals was build to harness the annual snow melt from the high Sierra Nevada Mountains. Now the large proportion of these lands produce millions of tuns of almonds, pistacios, apples, pears, walnuts, oranges, lemons, grapes for wine and raisins, tomatoes , field crops, cotton, dairies, beef, sheep, etc. With the misguided loss of the water, a large portion of this food producing area that employed thousands of migrant workers as well as the land owners and their families is returning to tumble weeds. The vast majority of the workers and their families now collect welfare checks and many of the land owners had to move into cities and have to find a job that is IF they can find one and their house rents are increasing every year , Great ha ?

 

[bobm]

Continued... I raise horses on this land and owned 14 brood mares plus their offspring. and 3 stallions that stood at stud to outside clients's mares. I made a good living at it and raised 3 kids. I employed a Veterinarian, a farrier, a helper and a crew of 5 migrant workers to weed and some odd jobs 4 times per year. purchased 100 tons of alfalfa and 20 tons of grains from area farmers to feed my horses as well as client mares and their foals. Then after all of the above, the bleeding hearts had a law passed to stop horse slaughter in the US. Prices for horses dropped like a rock, while feed prices TRIPLED because now I had to have the feed shipped in from out of state and the shipping costs did too . I sold most of my horses for %0.08 cents on the Dollar, and gave away 6 geldings. Because many of the farmers were forced to abandon their unproductive lands, there were precious few that would even consider to buy. It took us almost 6 years of our farm being on the market, we finally sold it 4 months ago at a loss of HALF MILLION DOLLARS

 

[Nyboy]

Bob I noticed horse prices are starting to go back up. For a while seemed like a couple of hundred a horse now I see prices in thousands. Of course this is based on CL ads Sad the law to stop horse slaughter only gave the horses a longer ride into Mexico.

 

[seedcorn]

Never understood why it’s ok to eat cattle, hogs, sheep, hickens, etc but NOT horses.... makes no sense to me.

@$15/hr, 40 hour work week, that’s $30K without any benefits. People with kids who need benefits are better on Gov. pay. Not right but it’s the economics.

No doubt, there is ground that should not be utilized. Problem is when Gov makes changes that affect you. Risks you take-like tariffs to farmers 2 largest buyers.