Home gardens designed like agricultural operations, What?!?!?!

[Beekissed]

We've found that here one can grow a large row of wildflowers next to the garden and it acts as a sacrificial lamb to bugs and we've not had any bug problems since implementing that step.

Weeds are a whole other breed of cat, but we've conquered them mostly with the use of planting clover for our pathways and just tilling rows to plant in instead of tilling the whole garden....then we mulch heavily around the plants. This is pretty successful unless the mulch moves and exposes bare earth and then the weeds will use that opportunity, but for the most part it does an excellent job. If the clover/grass gets too high in the pathways we just run the pushmower through it and that deposits grass clippings right where they need to be to compost for the benefit of our plants. In the fall we just seed the tilled rows back to clover and the chickens feed on that all fall.

This year we are going to implement the BTE method to try and get a better type of soil than we currently have so that we can plant root crops we currently don't have much success with due to the heavy clay soils. The BTE method will help with many things here~weeds included~ and will look neat as well, which we love.

It will take much initial labor to install it and install a permanent fence for the garden, but after that it will be much more easy to get into gardening each spring as I will no longer have to wait until it's dry enough to till to get to plant early crops, I will no longer have to till at all, I will no longer have to mulch specifically around the plants(it will already be there) and I will no longer have to worry about crop rotation, what I can and cannot grow, soil amendments, etc.

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

As long as you leave enough room for nature to grow, it shouldn't matter what you introduce. The problem is that we keep cutting nature back.

Beekissed - I like to use both the weeds and cultivated plants as a "sacrificial lamb" when I can. There are some plants that just seem like they can't take the weeds very well, in particular tomatoes. Not only does this keep the bad bugs distracted, but provides a nice place for the predatory bugs to stay and do their thing. I also have Southern Bog Lemmings in my garden. While they do tunnel they are insectivores, and so eat bugs. There are so many roots in my garden and such a large area for them to tunnel that it doesn't do that much damage. (A neat looking garden isn't on my priority list, I find enjoyment in the other aspects of growing things ).

I'll look at that video after school's done. What's the BET method? Is it in the video?

 

[Beekissed]

It is and some parts are hard to get past when he and other folks wax on and on about this or that, or there is singing or food munching, but it's worth it to persevere. It's also interesting to note that when he says, "And I use no fertilizer" that he means no commercial fertilizer....he uses horse composted horse manure and chicken manure liberally, it seems.

I won't be placing newspaper down like the other folks in the vid and, if you'll notice, neither did the Paul guy....he started this method on already plowed/bare soil. I'll be doing the same...tilling my sod under(my garden is replanted to grass and clover each fall to keep barren areas covered) and then placing the wood chips.

There is also a follow up vid that held more interest as it catches up with many years after the initial video to see how it's still working out.... it's worth watching as well as it shows what he has been able to plant in this garden and his unusual methods in doing so, and the results of all that....

 

[jasonvivier]

@jasonvivier IF you are of belief that solar energy makes nutrients, try again. Photosynthesis is the gas of the plant that allows it to convert the nutrients it gets from the ground (small amount through leaves) into the plant (& it's fruits). While air is mostly nitrogen, the plant gets most of its nitrogen through the root system. In trouble shooting problems, always look at pH and roots first-unless it's an insect problem.

On a personnal note, I use no commercial chemicals on my garden-never have. I do the old back breaking job of hoeing and mulching. My sand burns roots off if I don't mulch.

We will not be able to discuss this because of definitions you choose to use. Starting with monoculture. Just because a field is in corn doesn't mean that is the only crop that he grows and that field is in corn every year. You are limiting the size. Whether my garden is 1,000 acres or 10 sq. feet, at some point only one crop will be at a certain point. I use companion crops but I can tell you with 100% certainty that in Indiana, the moths will find tomatoes and you will have horn worms. IF you don't kill them, they will destroy your tomatos before the wasp finds them. Been there, done that.

What some refuse to understand is that predators only come in when the food source is plentiful-which means they have done their damage. I clearly prefer to take the damaging insects out before they get to that point.

I'm gone-peace.

I don't think solar energy makes nutrients. Without looking (currently at work) I'm pretty sure I was commenting on Solar energy making nutrients 'available' which it does in several ways; Carbohydrate interfaces with mycorrhizae fungi in the root zone and the underground economy and by assisting in the decomposition process.

"We will not be able to discuss this because of definitions you choose to use. Starting with monoculture." Yes I'll concede that in part, generally I like my dictionary definitions of words and not their Wikipedia definitions. But the term seems a little fuzzy as defined online because the culture of the plant ends if it is an annual and it's harvest season has ended. I understand that some people consider polyculture to mean to utilize multiple crops on one piece of land over a season but not at the same time. This definition falls short as again; the culture of the plant is finished when it is discarded. But I'll go back a make a changes to my original post to better reflect my intention. Thanks for the help.

For lack of a better, more descriptive term, I'll use the term Static-culture to define "a crop that is planted in genetic isolation to the end of the culture which occurs when harvest has ended, or 'until the annual plant is harvested, discarded or otherwise no longer considered a food production item' with the expectation that the crop will be the only production item". That should resolve any issues you have with the text.

"What some refuse to understand is that predators only come in when the food source is plentiful-which means they have done their damage. I clearly prefer to take the damaging insects out before they get to that point."

That just isn't the case in stable ecosystems and by and large where humans live are typically not stable ecosystems, though they can made to be so. That is what I suggest, to mimic stable ecosystems. This puts the work of the garden onto nature and the design and enjoyment of it on us.
Companion planting is nice, but what I suggest is a little more diverse then a simple companion planting scheme. I'm talking about ecosystem design and not farming. Which again is my point. Gardens can be designed based off of stable ecosystems and large scale farms cannot for all of the various reasons previously mentioned. It is a waste of money time and effort to have a garden that is designed like a farm. I don't believe that the original argument has been refuted in any meaningful way.

*** I won't get to correcting terms in my argument today.

 

[jasonvivier]

Jason, I'm not a photographer either. Do you have a cell phone that you can take pictures with?

Mary

Yes I do. Right now everything is under 4 feet or so of snow. Moving forward I am happy to take pictures.

 

[Lavender2]

We've found that here one can grow a large row of wildflowers next to the garden and it acts as a sacrificial lamb to bugs and we've not had any bug problems since implementing that step.

Weeds are a whole other breed of cat, but we've conquered them mostly with the use of planting clover for our pathways and just tilling rows to plant in instead of tilling the whole garden....then we mulch heavily around the plants. This is pretty successful unless the mulch moves and exposes bare earth and then the weeds will use that opportunity, but for the most part it does an excellent job. If the clover/grass gets too high in the pathways we just run the pushmower through it and that deposits grass clippings right where they need to be to compost for the benefit of our plants. In the fall we just seed the tilled rows back to clover and the chickens feed on that all fall.

This year we are going to implement the BTE method to try and get a better type of soil than we currently have so that we can plant root crops we currently don't have much success with due to the heavy clay soils. The BTE method will help with many things here~weeds included~ and will look neat as well, which we love.

It will take much initial labor to install it and install a permanent fence for the garden, but after that it will be much more easy to get into gardening each spring as I will no longer have to wait until it's dry enough to till to get to plant early crops, I will no longer have to till at all, I will no longer have to mulch specifically around the plants(it will already be there) and I will no longer have to worry about crop rotation, what I can and cannot grow, soil amendments, etc.

We garden similarly @Beekissed . I am a bit heavy on the flowers, herbs and weeds. I can't think of any infestation ever to the point of ruining a crop.

I use newspaper and leaf mulch in the vegetable garden and then selectively weed anything that pokes out. Clover is left to grow, pretty much everything else gets plucked out and tossed on the mulch. Most years we don't till, the paths are mulched more heavily with newspaper and a bit of mulch. I hesitate to apply too thick mulch or I will end up with a bad slug problem.

While I don't have clay, for root crops like carrots, I double dig with a pitchfork and I have added some sand just to the area for carrots.

 

[bobm]

Lets lake a look back in time at the likes of California ... for about 8 months of the year ( they don't call Cal. the "Golden Sate " for nothing ) Cal. is golden brown due to lack of rainfall as most of the native grasses go dormant. The Native Indian population with the hunter / gatherer societies for thousands of years was spread out far and wide in small family and/ or small tribe groups that traveled long distances to gather acorns, fish in rivers that didn't go dry in the dry 8 months of the year , gather berries that were found near the flowing rivers. and hunted migrating waterfowl in the fall and winter, ground squirrels year round. deer were quite small and spread out far and wide and not that plentiful. Wild rice and tules were harvested in wet lands. Forests grow in huge numbers and tree sizes such as the Redwoods grow huge in the coast range where moisture is plentiful pine forests in the Sierra Nevada Mts. , Oak trees in the dryer foothill and much more sparse in the valley areas. fish and frogs were in mountain streams and in year around rivers. Fish, clams, seals, sea otters at the Pacific Ocean shoreline. After the "Gold Rush" of the 49er's. The immigrants brought with them agriculture, machines, dams, grains, vegetable, fruit orchards, vineyards, cattle, sheep, horses, , etc. . About 150 +/- years later with the modern mono- culture agriculture in this very same region, this area currently supports MILLIONS of people and it's agriculture exports supports the SEVENTH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. Hmmm !

 

[ninnymary]

Yes I do. Right now everything is under 4 feet or so of snow. Moving forward I am happy to take pictures.

Well, I'll settle for some of last years pictures! I really want to see your gardens.

Mary

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

Lets lake a look back in time at the likes of California ... for about 8 months of the year ( they don't call Cal. the "Golden Sate " for nothing ) Cal. is golden brown due to lack of rainfall as most of the native grasses go dormant. The Native Indian population with the hunter / gatherer societies for thousands of years was spread out far and wide in small family and/ or small tribe groups that traveled long distances to gather acorns, fish in rivers that didn't go dry in the dry 8 months of the year , gather berries that were found near the flowing rivers. and hunted migrating waterfowl in the fall and winter, ground squirrels year round. deer were quite small and spread out far and wide and not that plentiful. Wild rice and tules were harvested in wet lands. Forests grow in huge numbers and tree sizes such as the Redwoods grow huge in the coast range where moisture is plentiful pine forests in the Sierra Nevada Mts. , Oak trees in the dryer foothill and much more sparse in the valley areas. fish and frogs were in mountain streams and in year around rivers. Fish, clams, seals, sea otters at the Pacific Ocean shoreline. After the "Gold Rush" of the 49er's. The immigrants brought with them agriculture, machines, dams, grains, vegetable, fruit orchards, vineyards, cattle, sheep, horses, , etc. . About 150 +/- years later with the modern mono- culture agriculture in this very same region, this area currently supports MILLIONS of people and it's agriculture exports supports the SEVENTH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. Hmmm !

....
So...what's your point?

 

[Smart Red]

I love this site.

I love the ideas we share about gardening and everything related to growing.

I love the way ideas are presented and received with respect and appreciation for broadening our education in agricultural techniques.

I especially love the way we respect each other and the differing ways of gardening we each approach in our own manner without being judgmental of others.

Thank you all for making this site such a great place to learn and enjoy with my gardening friends.