More Hard Decisions (Dog Gone It!)

[TheSeedObsesser]

Thanks a lot for the replies! You are all getting me digging deeper and reconsidering - a good thing! You are also giving me some numbers to work with, food for thought, and resources - more than I thought I was asking for. Thanks everybody!

This is going to be the first situation where I own the dog. We have had many other dogs and I think that I have gotten some good experience from having them here. I have done some reading before making this thread and acknowledge that the Tibetan Mastiff as a dog for the more experienced. Ma and my sister have both told me that I was great with many of the past dogs that we've had. If I can afford, and if I can keep a level head when it comes to training, I can do it!

Very good question Kuska! There's one problem - my dad. He has an obsession with dogs and large trucks. He'll treat either like royalty, good for trucks but bad for dogs. He has put his dogs above ourselves in the past, some of the dogs that we've had before have nearly led to my parents divorce. Something tells me that by allowing me to get a dog, he is just desperate to have another dog. He babies his dogs but is extremely jealous when it comes to the dogs that my mom has owned in the past.

Our Pit Bull, Kimber - we had to get rid of him because my dad said that he was getting food aggressive (we had just figured out what that meant). Looking back, I think poor ole Kimber sensed something in Pa that he didn't like. He would never growl or do anything of the sort when Sis, Ma, or I set the food down for him. Kimber was my mom's dog.

Bonny, Pa's Great Pyre - He started out fine when it came to training for the first few days. And then it's like he made no attempt to train at all, he put the dog above everybody including himself, made no effort to be the pack leader. This is one of the dogs that could've ended in divorce. Bonny wasn't a bad dog (She had no herding instinct and bad training) it's Pa's reaction when he get's around dogs that makes me very nervous. We were talking about dogs at the dinner table, Pa was joking about giving my (possible) dog treats behind my back - that doesn't help with how I feel about this. Pa and I were the only ones that could really control her (Pa could half-control her at least) , I think that I had the upper hand because I did not have her on my side with endless treats and baby talk.

We are planning on dramatically expanding the farm sometime during 2015. Pa has wanted a horse for a long while, do you think that this and all of the farm work will be enough for him to not be obsessed with my dog? (I also understand that I will have to spend time with it, I usually don't buy something unless I plan on spending time with it. It's also fine if the dog would take some of my "free time" away, honestly spending time on the farm and with the animals seems more like free time to me than sitting around watching movies and stuff like that.)

We can rarely leave the farm now because we have trouble finding people to take care of it. As we are planning on dramatically expanding leaving will not be an option. So no kennel costs.

I have read on most websites that the Tibetan Mastiff is a guard dog, but some list it as both a guard and herding dog.

I've had my eye on this particular breed of dog for a while, there aren't really any other breeds that I would consider. I would hate to pass on this opportunity, it almost seems like a sign that the seller of our dream house is also a Tibetan Mastiff breeder. I will wait until I'm on my own if I have to; five years or so seems so darn long though!

Sorry for the long post! I was trying to give some more background information. I think that I've covered everything?

 

[baymule]

SeedO, when you get to be my age, 5 years is on super-sonic speed! You are a level headed young man and you show wisdom beyond your years by asking for help and information before getting the dog. Does the owner of the property ya'll are moving to live on the property also? Or nearby?

 

[897tgigvib]

Everyone is giving good advice here, especially amkuska.

Secuono, who occasionally comes online here, seems to be very excellent with dogs. She, and some others I can't remember who, have a breed of dog that seems perfect for small farm/garden places.

Shoot* I can't remember the name of the breed, but it is something synonymous with "really good protective, even maternally protective, friendly to friends, frightening to bad things, really great breed of dog". I'm sure that's close! To the uninformed like me, they look kind of Samoyed or Pyranee.

She's put up photos of them mothering lambies and watching the chickens.

 

[lesa]

Even if your training ability is minimal, you are almost promised success with a lab or a golden. I have raised labs for seeing eye dogs. I always had the opinion they were "boring" dogs. Had Great Dane, Standard Poodle, Doberman, Border Collie, etc... there is nothing boring about a dog that lives to serve you, and wants nothing but to make you happy. The labs I have trained keep there eye on you- they want to know what you want them to do. The more independent breeds, not so much! Good luck!

 

[thistlebloom]

Seedo, I commend you on your maturity level to ask for advice before jumping in. I have the same opinion of you that Bay expressed. I hope your parents are very proud of you!

You've gotten some good advice and tips here!
Opinions of people like Lesa, who have a wide experience with a number of breeds and have done formal training of dogs, deserve a little more weight IMO.

Wishing you the best outcome possible!

 

[AMKuska]

Lesa - It's funny how your opinion of a breed can change once you get to know it. All of my worst bites as a groomer has been from chihuahuas -- including a bite to my face! You can imagine how not thrilled I was when my OH brought home Rocco...and it turns out he's the coolest dog I've ever owned. He is adept at herding (to the point where I can use him to help me pen chickens if I need an extra set of paws to block a potential exit point.) He does agility. He has done basic therapy work. He has passed his Canine Good Citizen, and so much more!

My own personal chihuahua which I got after OH caught me painting Rocco's nails (ahem.) can not only herd ducks, but can also herd sheep! She has saved the lives of our chickens multiple times, and will not back down if she thinks they are in danger, no matter how big the threat is. (I now come running when I hear her alarm bark, because she won't stand down no matter how big the creature trying to snack on chickens is. -.-)

I just love their strength and versatility -- and convenient size. Quite a jump!

Back to the Tibetan Mastiff:

Agree with everyone that you are going about this in the very best fashion. It's wonderful that you're doing your research. Your dad truly does not sound compatible with a dog that needs careful handling. I'm afraid he might make things very difficult for you. I do however, think you should offer to help out this breeder in exchange for learning more about how to handle and getting to know individuals among the breed. Through her you could certainly learn enough in 5 years to be able to easily handle a mastiff when you get out on your own.

 

[NwMtGardener]

SeedO, good for you for doing some research. i've owned lotsa dogs, and worked for years at a vet clinic. The rule we joked about, but is partly true "if you have to ask if you can afford a dog, ya can't!" the reason we say this is not the routine maintenance or food costs, its the emergencies. What a terrible situation to be in if one of your loved ones needed care, but you couldnt afford it. I would recommend an emergency vet savings account of maybe $1,000 for a large dog like a tibetan mastiff. There's definitely the possibility that emergency care could run much more than this amount.

I also think the tibetan mastiff would be a poor choice for your family dynamics (my opinion only from your brief description of course) - you say you wouldnt consider any other breeds but that's silly! There are TONS of amazing dogs out there, purebreds and mixed, that would make a better fit. BTW, even if this dog is your financial responsibility, it's going to belong to and be trained (intentionally or unintentionally) by everyone you live with. Ask canesisters about her roommate's "training" of her dogs!!

I'm not a good one to recommend this next part - i'm going to say "maybe you should wait until you're through with college" to decide to get your own dog. The reason i'm not a good one to say this is i got my first dog while in college. Then after i graduated, i decided to take a job for the summer where i couldnt have my dog! I had to hit my parents up for dogsitting for like 6 months. It wasnt a horrible inconvience for anyone, my whole family loves dogs, its just that I knew my life and future were very unsettled, and I went ahead and made an impulsive decision anyway.

I'm not trying to "rain on your parade" or discourage you, i just want to give my honest opinion. I work with multiple animal shelters, have fostered and adopted many dogs, and i've seen the consequences of people's poor decisions. I think you're an inquisitive person and you're going to work hard to make the right decision, whatever that is for you and your family. Good luck!

 

[journey11]

Glad you are taking your time and thinking through all the contingencies. I wish more people were as thoughtful as you when it comes to choosing a dog. I think most incidents occur because the owners weren't up to the responsibility. My neighbor bought a $5000 Harlequin Mastiff puppy. I've had a lot of trouble with him and his tiny dogs before, so I'm not real plussed about it. Although it is a beautiful dog, I don't think he can handle it.

The bigger the dog, the more they're going to eat. They also tend to cost more in the future due to potential hip problems and their meds will cost a bit more for higher dosages. But it can be totally worth it! If they're within your budget, don't let that deter you necessarily.

I have a 12-year-old pitbull and she has been a wonderful dog all these years. She is friendly with our two cats and my children hug all over her and she is good with visitors and other people's kids too. She was raised with my Chow mix who was older than her and they were a good pair, but she tends to be too nervous around other dogs that she doesn't know, so we don't allow her to be loose with other dogs.

With all dogs really, but especially with a large, powerful breed, you really have to be a good and consistent leader. It sounds like your dad is not. Heather's right...everyone in the family will play a part in the dog's training and they ALL need to be pack leaders. Dogs are very intuitive and can read your body language. They know who is really in charge. You need to meet the needs for the energy level or working class that your dog is, or else they will be very unfulfilled and will express their frustration through bad habits. A fenced yard really isn't adequate exercise for a high energy dog. It always makes me sad to see where a dog has paced the fence line. I don't think that is good for them mentally. Nothing beats a long walk with their owner.

One of the biggest mistakes I think people make is treating their dogs like a child, letting them on the furniture, jump on them, drag them around on the leash, etc. My sister has always had chihuahuas and lets them run her house and harass her guests. She had one that would sit behind me on the sofa and growl if I moved and she wouldn't do anything about IT. :/ It makes me sick. Although I don't like Cesar Milan much anymore since he got famous and developed a big head, I do agree with his insights into dog behavior and I used his techniques in training my own dogs. Treats and love have their place, but they are no replacement for a long walk and consistent boundaries. My pitbull was very high energy when she was young and benefited greatly from wearing a doggie backpack while we took our daily walks. It added a little extra weight to make sure she got a good workout and she almost acted like it was her own special job to wear it. Once she had her exercise, then I would spend time on training and commands. It's much more effective and the dog pays better attention to you.

If the Mastiff doesn't pan out for you and your parents are still willing to let you have a dog, I hope you'll get a chance to check out the local shelter or Petfinder online. There are some really awesome dogs at the pound just waiting for a good owner to love them and sometimes you can even find the breed you want there.

 

[so lucky]

What a plethora of good information and advice! I sure can't add anything meaningful about dog training, but I may have a little bit of general advice: Part of maturing is accepting that there are some things that just won't work at the present. Kind of like the Serenity Prayer. (go look it up and read the whole thing, if you haven't yet)
You have a long life ahead, but right now, having to wait 5 years for anything sounds like forever. At least you have a lot of other interests in your life, enough that having to wait to fulfill one of your dreams may not be too devastating. And the pleasure of looking forward to something in the future is exquisite.
It just doesn't sound to me like your family is mature enough to handle a big dog like a mastiff, even if you are!

 

[PhilaGardener]

Such great advice, everyone! I can't offer anything that compares. We've had a few mid-sized rescues over the years and they have been good dogs. SeedO - you are asking excellent questions. I am sure you'll make some great decisions and wish you luck with the move, the farm, and everything else! Sounds like you are going to be really busy!