More Hard Decisions (Dog Gone It!)

[HEChicken]

There is now way to know how the health will be in a dog, except to go to a reputable breeder. But that equals a lot of money. Vet costs for a healthy dog are very expensive.

Even going to a reputable breeder is no guarantee of good health. I have a dear friend whose husband is the type to research everything he does to the nth degree, and will only buy purebred puppies from the best breeder he can find - even though each one costs hundreds of dollars and is (usually) shipped in from across the country. Their last such puppy was a St. Bernard who spent six years going from one health issue or defect to another. From a sensitive stomach that left him with diarrhea on a regular basis (even though she fed the best food money could buy) to hip dysplasia and finally, bone cancer. He was put to sleep a month before his 6th birthday after costing them thousands in vet bills.

By contrast, mixed breed dogs often have fewer health issues due to not being bred for specific traits. Hybrid vigor.

 

[baymule]

SeedO, a link about my Great Pyrenees

http://www.backyardherds.com/thread...heep-goats-or-chase-bears-hawk-post-26.23771/

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

Bonny also ate eggs her favorite were goose, which were equally prized by us as we don't get them often. She was absolutely fine with chickens but liked to paw them once in a while. However, she was an absolute wuss when it came to nothing with fur on it other than herself, she did keep the hawks away though. We would have stuck with her if it wasn't for Pa's unacceptable behavior which made it impossible to train her anything. I'm hoping that the next dog belonging to me we change things for the better. I am a dog person.

Paris is a very nice looking dog and is lucky to have you as her owner. I found reading about her interesting also.

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

I'm finding it interesting that there is some conflicting information here, that's the good thing about forums - opinions and advice from a number of different people.

We have went to a poultry breeder before to find that most of his birds were in extremely poor condition. The only ones that looked good were the turkeys, we think that he had everything on turkey feed to make the cost of running his "operation" cheaper. He also had way too many birds in each pen and the waterfowl had no water to speak of. We still bought a number of geese from him (lots of missing feathers), but they cleaned up and healed nicely after being given water to bath in and proper care. The two Sebastopols did have angel wing and it appeared as if the guy tried pinioning them and cut too close, they're wings were infected and bled frequently. We have since given them proper treatment and they have mostly healed and started to feather out nicely. We really should have turned the breeder in but hesitated too long.

 

[bobm]

Not that simple regarding hybrid vigor ... by the rules of genetic inheritance , the subject animal could also inherit different combinations of genetic defects or tendencies from both the father as well as the mother, so that individual could have a double whammy of possible issues. In Vet. School Necropsies, I have seen just as many organ, skeleton , lymph, defects as well as cancers , stomach, gut, heart, brain, spinal chord, spine vertebra, etc. issues just as often in the mutts as with the purebreds. One can check this out in the histology slides as well as in the Necropsy reports.

 

[HEChicken]

bobm, I don't disagree - hybrid vigor does not always apply. One of my favorite dogs of all time was a mutt with the worst case of hip dysplasia the vet had ever seen - he had to be put to sleep when he was only 5 years old, and he was only a 40lb dog too - not a mix of larger breeds.

When I referred to hybrid vigor, I was referring to breeds that have been bred specifically for a certain trait. For e.g., a Shar Pei, that is bred to be as wrinkly as possible. Those wrinkles also make the dog far more prone to skin problems. But mix a Shar Pei with another breed and the offspring is unlikely to be nearly as wrinkled as it is only getting the genes from one of its parents, and therefore will have fewer issues with wrinkles.

A mutt can have all the same health issues a pure bred dog can. But it is less likely to have "breed specific" health issues when each parent is of a different breed. And that is what I was really referring to when I used the term "hybrid vigor".

 

[ducks4you]

Before you jump into a purebred dog, do the research and find out about any genetic abnormalities that the AKC has encouraged breeders to INBREED into your favorite breed. Nobody with knowledge will buy an American purebred German Shepherd bc in Germany they will not breed sick animals, like they do here. My SIL loves her purebred collies, who cost her several thousand dollars more in specialized medicines and surgeries each year than my dogs cost ME. My dogs are mutts and very healthy. They are both working dogs, 1/2 year apart in age and almost exactly the same height and weight.
"Rose" is Husky/GS x BC
"Pygma" is Lab/GS x Pitbull
I have trained them to do the following:
1) come when their name is called
2) sit/stay on command
3) bark at neighbors but Do NOT leave the property
THEY have trained themselves to:
1) heel and guard me when I feed my horses and chickens after dark
2) "protect me" against the horses when they think the horses are doing wrong...whatever that is
3) chase and run with the horses
4) lay on my feet when I'm watching tv
5) worry when the other dog or the cat are still outside
6) sit on the steps when I let them out and they are ready to come back inside.
I hate to see dogs in pain bc a sloppy breeder has dollar signs in their eyes. Hope this helps.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Another thing about hybrid vigor. You lose that when you inbreed, plants or animals. But if you cross parents that have been genetically separated for several generations, you regain some of that hybrid vigor, even if they are the same breed. Not all hybrid vigor, but some. That's looking at it from another perspective than HE, whom I think made a valid point. There are different ways to look at this.


Any time you create a breed or variety, dogs, chickens, tomatoes, or beans, you are breeding hybrid vigor out. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what you want. That hybrid vigor could be either good or bad, depending on if it introduces or reinforced a trait you want or don't want.

 

[bobm]

Ummmm ! Ducks... you have described the puppy mills and wanna be breeders where they breed purebred as well as mutts and " designer" and "fad" dogs willy nilly. They are also the favorite seizure source of dogs of the rescue groups that they then adopt out rather than putting them down. With any dog's health issues, it is the luck of the genetic draw. The ethical purebred breeders use genetic testing for known inherited issues and not breed the carriers of the defect. These dogs may cost more up front due to testing costs, however they end up costing the new owner less in the long run due to lower health related maintenance costs. INBREEDING is NOT a bad thing if one first eliminates genetic faults through genetic testing as well as progeny testing. For University laboratory genetic testing purposes , prior to the ability of cloning animals of today, I used a line of inbred mice, then inbred them very closely from one male and one female for 27 generations. We then sacrificed some and did necropsies and microscopic work to see if there were any abnormalities and found none.

 

[AMKuska]

I think this thread is getting a bit off topic. :-/