New corns of note

[flowerbug]

one thing that was done is to not plant the corn and beans at the same time so the earlier planted corn had enough of a head start it could get big enough to stand up to the weight of the bean plants, but also some of the beans were more semi-runner and not so tall of growers. i've not done those methods here at all. no plans on growing corn any time soon.

i grow mostly bush beans, if they drag on the ground that's just how it goes, if i pick often enough it's not a big issue, just when the weather gets really cruddy for too long that i worry. i can keep up with all the garden spaces i have here now as it is, but one thing for sure to add more just means i can grow bigger blocks of plants (which are easier to harvest and keep apart), but i should not grow more than 50 varieties at a time, i just don't have enough room in here to stack that many boxes.

 

[Zeedman]

Just a note: if you plant the 3 sisters method, DON'T plant pole beans. The corn simply cannot support the extra vining weight. There is plenty of room for squash and bush beans.

Sweet corn generally will not support pole beans (especially tall snap beans); and as mentioned by @Ridgerunner , the strategy of the 3 sisters method was to grow dry corn - and dry beans - which would be harvested together, along with the mature squash. The dry corns used would have been taller & more durable than most sweet corns, and perhaps the beans used would have had more restrained vines - like some of the heirloom "cornfield" beans.

And, does it have to be corn, squash and beans exclusively? I know that is the traditional Native American plan (since it covered all the staples). But could one put any grain, legume, and cucurbit together. Since I don't eat many common beans, and don't like squash. I always toyed with combining corn, rice beans or azuki beans (both of which DO climb but are far smaller (and therefore lighter) than pole beans** and maybe watermelons. I think the interaction would probably be about the same. (Of course, first I have to figure out how to get the corn to live long enough to actually EXIST.)

I've experimented with using indeterminate tomatoes in place of squash, and using tall soybeans in lieu of beans. The tomatoes did OK, with a reduced yield - but because there needed to be access to harvest, this was not a true 3 sisters garden. Tomatoes could work around the edges of the corn patch though (as could watermelon vines). The soybeans could not grow tall enough to compete for sunlight, and did poorly. Vining cowpeas did better, and IMO are a one-for-one replacement for the pole beans, albeit at a lower yield. Planted densely enough, the cowpeas might even be able to block enough sunlight to suppress weeds on their own, without squash. Tepary beans might be able to fill a similar role in dry climates.

Now that I think of it, that could apply to beans as well. As long as beans were being grown only for seed and the pods were tough, letting them run along the ground was fine. But when snap beans came about, you suddenly had much softer, more pest vulnerable pods, and had to get them up in the air to protect them. And if the bean was a vine, that meant giving it something to climb on.

IMO the whole point of elevating beans was to get them off the ground, to reduce losses to rot & rodents. The height also kept the beans above the squash, and the better air flow would have reduced disease. I think the fact that climbing beans were used at all was dictated more by what was available - and the natural tendency of wild legumes to climb - than by any intentional selection. Undoubtedly, the mutual selection of beans & corn gradually improved their ability to grow together, with taller stronger stalks for corn, and more restrained vines for the beans. But yes, snap beans (or more likely dual-use beans) and their less fibrous pods, would have been in greater need of elevation for seed saving.

Just speculation on my part... but perhaps the need for snap beans to require access during the growing season is what divorced them from corn, and led to the development of shorter varieties which did not require that support.

 

[Zeedman]

You all have gotten me interested in Painted Mountain. The fellow that developed it did an interesting video on how he decides which young plants to cull. But he also did a video about his new release variety, Montana Morado Maize [eta: just started selling, as of Nov 2021]. He's been working on it for 50 years! I love the look on his face towards the end of the video.

The Montana Morado Maize largely came from my Painted Mountain Corn. It grows about the same but with a little larger and stronger plants, it is naturally diverse, open pollinated and you can grow it year after year. It has long 8 row thin cylindrical ears with shiny black kernels. Its ancestors are 100% North American Native corn.

A word of caution though... at least one seed company is selling an imported corn with a very similar name.

ETA: Found Dave Christensen's backstory about how Painted Mountain and Montana Morado Maize came to be:

"At the age of age of 17, I received a powerful unexpected dream from God. I saw two thin ears of black corn. I did not know why or how, but my soul was imprinted to develop this corn. Thus began my lifelong work with ancient corn varieties kept alive by Indian families & homesteaders.

30 years ago, I experimented with Navajo desert corn from Black Mesa, Arizona. One plant produced two ears, and when I peeled back their husks, each glistened with shiny black kernels. I was elated to have found the sacred black corn of my dream. I introduced the black Navajo color into my work and developed Montana Morado Maize.

Recently, scientists have discovered that dark-purple corn contains extraordinarily high levels of anthocyanins. These compounds act as antioxidants, with many powerful health benefits. Now I understood why I was guided to create this.

The sacred corn seed is the result of fifty years of exciting discovery and conscious breeding guided by a vision, grown in Montana with love, prayers and blessings for your health and well-being."

– Heirloom corn breeder, Dave Christensen, Big Timber, Montana

Well, @meadow you got me. Based upon its heritage, I broke down & ordered some of the Montana Morado Maize today. It won't get planted this year (a second planting of Painted Mountain is already planned, to widen the gene pool) so the seed will go in the freezer until next year. I was pleasantly surprised at how many places were already selling seed, which allowed me to shop around & get 1/2 pound for a reasonable price

 

[seedcorn]

Understand any time you crowd plants, production per plant will be reduced. Plants will compete for available nutrients-they do not share.

To allow corn to stand up to a vine, plant lo pops-like 2’ apart. Also pick varieties that the tops don’t drop naturally.

 

[meadow]

[...]a second planting of Painted Mountain is already planned,

Do you mean in the same garden? Is it possible to get 2 crops in one season (in the same garden)?

I was surprised that there were other sellers! I bought some too, but will not be growing it this year as I'd already purchased Roy's Calais Flint & Martian Jewels. I'd also like to get Painted Mountain, but would like to understand the source options first (I hope to get some for foundation stock so want it to be true to type/characteristics).

 

[Zeedman]

Do you mean in the same garden? Is it possible to get 2 crops in one season (in the same garden)?

No, as much as I wish it were otherwise. Only one corn planting per year can be grown here, in any given area. My first planting of Painted Mountain was last year, from seed sent to me by @baymule . I will plant the remaining seed from that trade this year, and mix the two lots to preserve as much genetic diversity as possible. That mixed seed is what I will share with others, and place in frozen storage for use in future plantings. Of course, I plan to eat quite a bit of it too, there should be about 40-50 pounds total if all goes well.

 

[ducks4you]

I'll give my take on the Three Sisters method.

Totally agree. I never really thought about all of those differing needs among different tribes. It's like the 4 beat on a drum, 4 quarter notes, 1st note sforzando, last three mezzopiano was NEVER native american music.
Modern recreations of circle dance is 2 beat, sforzando, mezzopiano, repeated ad nauseum.
The piece escapes me, but that very rhythm is from a mid 19th century composition based on European folk music.
I am sure that I will hear it again soon, since I stream a LOT of classical music, and got a minor in it.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Totally agree. I never really thought about all of those differing needs among different tribes. It's like the 4 beat on a drum, 4 quarter notes, 1st note sforzando, last three mezzopiano was NEVER native american music.
Modern recreations of circle dance is 2 beat, sforzando, mezzopiano, repeated ad nauseum.
The piece escapes me, but that very rhythm is from a mid 19th century composition based on European folk music.
I am sure that I will hear it again soon, since I stream a LOT of classical music, and got a minor in it.

I think I know what you may be talking about (or if not, know of something similar).

Namely the Beggar's Theme from Ketelbey's In A Persian Market, has somehow gotten INTIMATELY associated with Native American Music for some reason I don't know.

(0:36)

On a related note, I have always wondered whether the chorus word "Bahika" which appears in Larry Verne's novelty song "Please Mr. Custer" actually MEANT anything in some Native American language.

In my defense (if you can't hear what I'm talking about). I should point out that, due to the tape I orignally learned the song from being from Britain, the version I learned was the Charlie Drake one from Australia, on which the word is a LOT clearer.

 

[ducks4you]

@Pulsegleaner , you are Right that the Persian Market piece has been associated with Native Americans via movie scores. MANY early 20th century score composers got their inspiration, if not wholly lifting European music, including your examples. Many were also great composers in their own right, such as Erich Korngold.

Erich Wolfgang Korngold, the Opera Composer Who Went Hollywood

His melodic gift rivalled Puccini’s—but his reputation suffered when he began writing movie scores. Now the classical world is giving him a fresh listen.

www.newyorker.com

Also, Max Steiner, who composed the music for one of my Favorite Films, "Casablanca."

The opening theme is almost like American Native American movie themes.
Btw, if you have never seen this film, it is NOT a romance.
It is a hero story.
Lazlo, (to Rick): "Welcome back to the fight. THIS time I know our side will win."

Still, it wasn't the piece I was thinking of...
I am SURE it will come to me!

 

[Pulsegleaner]

@Pulsegleaner , you are Right that the Persian Market piece has been associated with Native Americans via movie scores. MANY early 20th century score composers got their inspiration, if not wholly lifting European music, including your examples. Many were also great composers in their own right, such as Erich Korngold.

Erich Wolfgang Korngold, the Opera Composer Who Went Hollywood

His melodic gift rivalled Puccini’s—but his reputation suffered when he began writing movie scores. Now the classical world is giving him a fresh listen.

www.newyorker.com

Also, Max Steiner, who composed the music for one of my Favorite Films, "Casablanca."

The opening theme is almost like American Native American movie themes.

I see what you mean

I have seen bits of Casablanca, mostly because I am a Peter Lorre fan (which is mostly because I think I resemble him a bit, mostly around the eyes.)

As for Native American/First Nation affairs, I really don't know all that much. My father and mother (and to a lesser extent, I and my sister) collect Southwestern Native American pottery (the kind they make for sale, NOT the looted kind), so I know a fair bit about them. Back when I had the tapes/CD's I listened to the CBC program The Dead Dog Cafe Comedy Hour and found it hilarious. Though in this day and age, I'm not sure if that would be considered being pro- or anti- First Nations (I STILL have never heard seasons 3 and 4.)