Ripoff ?

[bobm]

I only skimmed this thread, so sorry if this has already been said.
I have a lot of chickens and sell eggs for $3/dozen, which is fairly common around here. I used to think the $5 -$6 farmers market price was outrageous, until I looked into selling my eggs through a local CSA.

You must buy liability insurance ($300 - $600 dollars per year). And if you want to actually set up a booth in the farmer's market, there is a hefty yearly fee, a requirement to attend so many meetings per year, and of course, you need to sit there for several hours so you are giving up your time. And if someone is paying for organic feed, that adds another cost.

When you buy those eggs at the farmer's market, you are not just paying for eggs, but for eggs, insurance, someone's time, membership fees, and production cost. I'd rather feed my excess eggs back to the chickens than go through all the hassle, but I no longer feel like those high prices are a ripoff.

I see and agree with you as to why the high prices at the CSA and farmer's market, but ... With all the different fingers in this case eggs and considering this economy , just how can a person with a small fixed income, Social Security , on food stamps, wik, those that haven't received a raise for the last up to 8+ years ( my wife works for the Federal Gov. and hasn't received a raise in 10 years as well as everyone else there) , minimum wage earners, those that had their homes reposessed , the unemployed , and now that some States are now legalizing mary wanna ( some people spend their money on a high, so that leaves them very little money left for food) , etc. be able to afford these prices to eat " healthy " ? Just how are these people going to streach their income dollars for other food items or other "organic" foods. Then in the most recent push by the bleeding hearts to increase the minimum wage to $15 / hour Nationally , all businesses' costs of production will be forced to increase and therefore they will have to charge more and/ or the businesses will have to lay off some workers . In our area of SW Washington, I am now seeing quite a few small businesses either laying off employees, cutting back their hours or days that they are open and in some cases just closing their doors. Example : Our favorite restaurant Kathy's in Vancouver, Wa. is always packed to overflowing with people waiting at the door for dinner ( was reported by the food critics as one of the best restaurants to eat for quality food in the newspaper) when we go out eat dinner, is now open for breakfast and lunch with increased prices, but is closed for dinner from Mon. through Thursday to save labor and other operating costs. Kathy told us that she can't afford to offer anything " organic" and still make a profit also she is being proactive in anticipation of the mandated higher minimum wage to stay open. Then just how will the customer afford to pay such prices for grocery store eggs much less the $5 -$7 / doz. today and soon to be the new higher prices for eggs or "organic" eggs just to eat " healthy " , ie. " organic " ?

 

[thistlebloom]

Eating "organic" is not a mandate Bob. Since you obviously don't see that it makes a difference why all the fuss?
There's plenty of inexpensive (relatively) conventional food out there for people with low incomes to purchase.

Our income is not high. It's not even realistic by your standards, and yet we eat healthy. Not everything I buy is "organic", but some is.
I garden, and I make most everything for our meals from scratch and that saves a lot of money. Just compare the price of a can of plain beans to the cost of the same amount of dry beans. Anybody can cook dry beans.

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

My family is as poor as the dirt in an industrial field, and we still manage to make 90% of what we eat organic. It's a choice, and we all have the right to choose - respect that.

 

[Beekissed]

I also hate to see SeedO attacked. If he's around 16-17 yrs. old and we are in our 50's-60's. shouldn't we be the matured ones and show some respect?

Don't know who "attacked" SeedO but, to be fair, his or her age is not displayed on the forum and folks wouldn't know that...I doubt they are allowed to ask a minor their age anyway.

As to respect, that should be from both sides, regardless of age. When a youngster proposes to enter a conversation with adults online, the expectation should be that they are treated much like adults until their age is known...and sometimes even after that..it's a tough ring to jump into. If a young person interjects an opinion on the matter, they should be prepared to endure some facts or opinions being presented~no matter how respectfully or disrespectfully~in return.

That all comes back to individual discretion and morals once again and, as has been pointed out to me, one cannot dictate another person's actions or label them with any label as there is responsibility on both sides to be informed and take action on their own. Sort of a "poster beware" type of thingy.

 

[bobm]

• I guess that some of you here are pretty closed minded when it comes to "organic" , anti GMO , bashing Corporation / Business , etc. and seam to be basing your views on emotion rather than on scientific examination of facts of life then resort to chastising anyone that states scientific peer reviewed published facts or personal experiences other than someone else has experienced. I don't care if a person is 10 or 100, rich ( yes,we were once quite well off ) or dirt poor ( during WW2 we were once so poor that we had to dig through garbage and gather wild plants in a forest to eat and find discarded clothes to wear, family members shot and wounded and yes family members and friends killed right in front of me, lived in bombed out buildings and abandoned barns ) or your choice of lifestyle , or what you choose to eat or drink organic or otherwise ( I grew most of my own vegetables, fruit, animals on my ranch to feed my family), or your politics, or what you choose for a religion or not. It's YOUR CHOICE. All I ask is for all of you and I to keep an open mind and to have the courtesy to respect views other than your own. Then we can have a meaningful conversation and you as well as I can learn from each other.

 

[digitS']

... have a lot to say about how you can set up. They don't have a shortage of vendors and they have a lot of customers.

Not every Farmer's Market in this county is the same by a long shot, let alone across the country.

Very true. Sometimes I have thought that everyone with an unused parking lot has thought that a farmers' market should be there. Ain't so. First off, the customers develop shopping habits and farmers' markets tend towards the inconvenient side of things.

There are also few "food producers" willing to be vendors. They often wear quite a few hats with processing and transportation taking up quite a lot of their time.

Many successful markets that are more convenient for consumers are less convenient for the vendors. Harvesting and processing and then driving 50 or 100 or 200 miles is both time consuming and expensive for them.

Dumping produce at a market is disruptive. Produce re-sellers often don't even need to purchase what they sell. They may simply load up at a wholesaler and pay for what they have sold, returning the remainder at the end of the marketday.

I say "disruptive" because the consumer makes the final decision and the one buying from the re-sellers isn't usually the same as the consumer buying from the grower. Still, grower-only markets are best. What is available at any supermarket is ... available at any supermarket ... Actual growers of what they sell usually fill niches of consumer preference. Because it can be a tough row to hoe, loyalty can be the highest valued "commodity."

Steve

 

[Nyboy]

Do the same rules farmers markets have apply to flea market sellers? A lot of flea markets here have people selling garden produce, honey, eggs and home made jelly. Do they need to carry insurance?

 

[bobm]

At our town's Farmer's Market , at least for the last 3 years, the has been NO edible items sold. Only cut flowers, craft and painting items . Total MISNOMER !!!

 

[digitS']

Fresh produce at flea markets just don't seem right ...

Insurance for farms may always (don't know ) cover their farm-related activities, no matter where they are.

States often have special allowances made for farmer sales. Many states do not allow local governments to require business permits. Health departments have enormous powers, however, dating back to epidemics and such.

Steve

 

[thistlebloom]

• I guess that some of you here are pretty closed minded when it comes to "organic" , anti GMO , bashing Corporation / Business , etc. and seam to be basing your views on emotion rather than on scientific examination of facts of life then resort to chastising anyone that states scientific peer reviewed published facts or personal experiences other than someone else has experienced. I don't care if a person is 10 or 100, rich ( yes,we were once quite well off ) or dirt poor ( during WW2 we were once so poor that we had to dig through garbage and gather wild plants in a forest to eat and find discarded clothes to wear, family members shot and wounded and yes family members and friends killed right in front of me, lived in bombed out buildings and abandoned barns ) or your choice of lifestyle , or what you choose to eat or drink organic or otherwise ( I grew most of my own vegetables, fruit, animals on my ranch to feed my family), or your politics, or what you choose for a religion or not. It's YOUR CHOICE. All I ask is for all of you and I to keep an open mind and to have the courtesy to respect views other than your own. Then we can have a meaningful conversation and you as well as I can learn from each other.

Bob, I would like you to find one of my posts, just one, where I "bashed" corporations or businesses, conventional large scale agriculture or small organic farmers. I think I'm pretty open minded on a lot of subjects, and do enjoy getting educated. I know just enough to know how much I don't know.

This thread has gone several directions, but it began with a question about getting ripped off because something (eggs) were labeled "organic".
I'll say it one more time, if you had no other choices as a consumer, and you were forced to pay multiple times what a product was worth or what a fair profit would be for the producer, then yes, you could say that was a rip off. But the FACT remains, that we aren't forced to buy expensive foods whatever the label is unless we make that CHOICE.

I get it Bob, you abhor all things labeled "organic".

I think I've been respectful in this discussion, if I haven't please show me where I was offensive and I will apologize.

I feel sympathy for what you and your family endured when you were a child. I'm glad you're here.
But I don't see how that tough experience relates to the discussion.