Ripoff ?

[bobm]

Flowerweaver, There are quite a few exception like you ... however I have worked at aUniversity Vet. School Pathology Dept. for years , so I have seen all types of pets as well as livestock that comes in the door for necropsies as well as visiting the farms that the animals came from. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I will say that most of those that practice this utopian type of farming are no better or even worse than the chap from the video of "Back to Eden" chickin raisin.

 

[flowerweaver]

Bob, no doubt there are poor practices on both sides of the fence, I'm sure my vets see it, too. I hope that a new generation of farmers, younger than myself, will take up the banner of land stewardship and good husbandry practices like Wendell Berry writes about. I just think it would be good for people to either grow their own so they know what goes into it, or create relationships with those people who do produce their food. Unfortunately I don't have enough arable land to feed my community, or I would. We dream of buying a real field, but in reality the field will probably be sold to developers to make another gated community of summer homes.

I saw a bag of onions at the store the other day, prominently touted as being grown in Texas, no doubt in the county south of me. However, it said they were bagged in Florida! There are people here out of work that would have jumped at the chance to bag onions. There's so much folly in our current food system, it hurts my brain.

Ridge, I worm the dogs monthly anyway, so the once a year eggs are on top of that, not replacing that. I agree with SeedO that organic is a way of life.

Through both sides of my family I am genetically predisposed to cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity. I made the decision to adopt this lifestyle when I was 13 (which was a long time ago!). A few years ago a documentary came out called Forks Over Knives (changing your health through how you eat (fork) rather than surgery (knife)) that is worth seeing if you get a chance. I think it's on Netflix and Amazon now.

One thing I should point about about the cost of organics, is that most of the organic farms are smaller and do not receive the government subsidies that big ag gets. Just take a look at how many ag chemical lobbyists are now in governmental positions. And with these same companies gifting monies to universities who produce the studies, it's no wonder the outcomes can be skewed to their advantage. Although more organic companies are going big, their ag practices don't necessarily set well with small organic ag, like having a small patio for 250,000 chickens and being able to call it free-range.

I am more of a follower of E.F. Shumacher's Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered (or animals, or the land, etc.) As in many systems, quality is not successfully scalable.

 

[seedcorn]

Organic qualifies for same government payments as anyone else. A lot of organic farmers are HUGE. They aren't on 40 acres living like Green Acres sitcom.

NO problem with organic except I would wager that any organic feed is actually not organic-may not even be non-GMO. IF you are concerned, simple test to be had for GMO. No, I don't have it as I don't care....

Although the hypocrisy of organic movement in AG does light me up. End of rant, sorry....

 

[thistlebloom]

Okay Bob, I'll take your word for it that you didn't just want to kick up a little dust.

I am puzzled by one thing though, you mentioned in another thread you created about your wife buying "organic" bulk food from a super markets bins where the customers bag up their products. Then you related to us how you were later infested with pantry moths and made the connection to the bulk food being to blame because it was "organic".

In this thread you describe your wifes purchase of free range eggs and go on to decry the price some people pay for organic eggs.

So what? I'm pretty sure it's not going to catch on nationwide and that will soon be your only choice. There's all kinds of things that are higher priced than others in every marketplace, from food to automobiles. Vote with your wallet. I don't get the big deal.

 

[Beekissed]

Sorry, folks...didn't mean to break bad on the thread. I just hate seeing folks being bullied and I hate being bullied. Sorry, Bob!

For what it's worth, Bobm, I think it's a ripoff as well when they charge more for grass fed and pasture raised meats and eggs, simply because it's cheaper to raise them that way in the first place so it's not in an effort to defray costs.

Organic is another matter, as one must jump through a lot of hoops and pay extra money to obtain the feed, so the extra cost can be justified somewhat, though not the HUGE price of $7 per doz. I don't care if it's a supply and demand sort of thing, I think it's still a ripoff and a price gouge.

 

[flowerweaver]

I've found if I 'pulse' my organic grains through the freezer a couple of times over a two week period I don't get pantry moths.

To be clear, I'm just saying why I believe organics are more costly (because I produce them). Eating them is a personal choice. I can only tell you what works for me. I don't espouse any particular type of gardening ie. Food Forests, Square Foot, Back to Eden, Lasagna, Double Dig, Biodynamic, No Till, Strawbale, etc. Each one works for different people and that's great, but most of them won't work in the desert although I can apply some of the concepts. My methods come largely from years of experimenting, and are constantly evolving to adapt to my environment. I am wise enough to know my growing situation is so different than that of most gardeners I don't take a 'my way or the highway' stance.

The wisest settlers probably kept on going when they stopped to water their horses at this pile of rocks I call my farm. I wouldn't call it an Eden (although some do), but like that bowling trophy I got as a kid, I'd probably get an award for 'most improved'.

 

[bobm]

... and some are buzzing the majic cure all "natural farming " mantra here and there

 

[seedcorn]

This one area we are not going to agree as one side points out benefits and the other side says it's inaccurate data and their side is right. Really don't care till insults start flying.

My dog doesn't need organic but by-products in his feed light him up-and he is mutt on both sides-he's an F1 mutt.......so some say why spend 4X for his food. Because we love him and decided it is worth it to us. IF organic worth it to you, buy it. If not, don't.

 

[Carol Dee]

oh dear can we agree to disagree friends.

 

[Smart Red]

What Carol Dee said. . .