Saving Seeds From Year To Year?

[Zeedman]

@seedcorn has commented before on the importance of seed vigor, vs germination rate. An experience last year of one of my peppers was a good illustration of this. I planted some 2012 seed of "Pizza" pepper. With spotty germination only beginning 14 days later, I replanted with my limited supply of 2018 seed. That second planting germinated in 7 days. By the time both lots were transplanted, the second set - while germinating 7 days behind the first - had caught up to & surpassed the first planting.

 

[Zeedman]

If you feel inclined I'd love to hear a little about the varieties of heirloom soup peas you grow. Or any of the peas you might be growing. This is a big pea year for me, lots of new trials starting up here. So far Gold Harvest and Prussian Blue have sprouted.

Thank you for trying again ☺

Only a few peas this year. I always grow at least one shelling pea, one snap pea, one snow pea, and one soup pea:

Gruno Rosyn (Capucijner-type soup)
Mesa (afila shelling, similar to Novella)
Rimpaus Green Victoria (smooth blue-green soup)
Sugar Lace (afila snap)
Yokomo Giant (snow pea)

Other soup peas, many of which are long overdue for renewal (and I hope have that vaunted pea longevity):

Bill Jump
Cera Sierra
Golderbse
Nadja
Prebohaty (some confusion over spelling, and whether this is a soup or shelling pea)
Vantana Matar

Also a purple-podded shelling pea, Purple Pod Parsley, which is parsley-leaved (no tendrils). It was developed by Dr. Alan Kapular, and is a work in progress that still needs further selection. Sadly, that too is long overdue, since weather & mice destroyed my last two attempts.

The pea longevity is good news for the soup peas, because I can grow fewer but larger plantings... and maybe have enough to actually make a batch or two of soup, rather than just saving seed for preservation.

 

[SprigOfTheLivingDead]

There's a research project at the University of Wisconsin, I believe, that was started in 1890 (???) or so around seed viability. A prof buried containers of seeds and sand and they've been digging them up and testing the viability ever since. I think the final container was dug up in 2020. That sound familiar to anyone? I was trying to track the study down with no luck

 

[digitS']

@seedcorn has commented before on the importance of seed vigor, vs germination rate. An experience last year of one of my peppers was a good illustration of this. I planted some 2012 seed of "Pizza" pepper. With spotty germination only beginning 14 days later, I replanted with my limited supply of 2018 seed. That second planting germinated in 7 days. By the time both lots were transplanted, the second set - while germinating 7 days behind the first - had caught up to & surpassed the first planting.

This is something that I have suspected was happening again and again.

Viability seems that it would equal vigor. However, that must not be so. And yet, why not? Genetically, wouldn't both quickly-germinating and slowly-germinating plants be identical?

This must be a nature/nurture situation. Or, is there more to it?

Briefly tried to find information on @SprigOfTheLivingDead 's question. (Hey wait a minute! That handle and the viable and vigor question ... oh, never mind !) Anyway. The standard recommended shelf life of garden peas was only 3 years and even brassicas like cabbage and radish were longer.

@Zeedman , your response on purchasing from established seed companies on that @catjac1975 's thread bears on this. Someone shuffling large quantities of seed into small packets for shipping to consumers in a garage somewhere may have little concern for either viability or vigor.

Steve

 

[flowerbug]

There's a research project at the University of Wisconsin, I believe, that was started in 1890 (???) or so around seed viability. A prof buried containers of seeds and sand and they've been digging them up and testing the viability ever since. I think the final container was dug up in 2020. That sound familiar to anyone? I was trying to track the study down with no luck

The World's Longest-Running Experiment Is Buried in a Secret Spot in Michigan

In the fall of 1879, Dr. William James Beal walked to a secret spot on Michigan State University’s campus and planted a strange crop: 20 narrow-necked glass...

www.atlasobscura.com

buried seed research project at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[digitS']

Ah, ha!

But a mullein and a Malva? I suppose that it could be a very nice Malva ...

"trying to find a rigorous answer to a question." Ha! Vigor / Rigor. There are some cute authors of Atlasobscura articles. Still, vigor was left out of the analysis? Oh well, life's mysteries - including why wasn't that article updated in 2020?

Digging on the "sacred" knoll reminds me of the religious fanatics 100 years ago who all but destroyed an archeological site in Ireland searching for the Holy Grail. Yeah.

Steve
Edit, days later: Arc of the Covenant ... I knew it was something like that. Ireland!

 

[heirloomgal]

Only a few peas this year. I always grow at least one shelling pea, one snap pea, one snow pea, and one soup pea:

Gruno Rosyn (Capucijner-type soup)
Mesa (afila shelling, similar to Novella)
Rimpaus Green Victoria (smooth blue-green soup)
Sugar Lace (afila snap)
Yokomo Giant (snow pea)

Other soup peas, many of which are long overdue for renewal (and I hope have that vaunted pea longevity):

Bill Jump
Cera Sierra
Golderbse
Nadja
Prebohaty (some confusion over spelling, and whether this is a soup or shelling pea)
Vantana Matar

Also a purple-podded shelling pea, Purple Pod Parsley, which is parsley-leaved (no tendrils). It was developed by Dr. Alan Kapular, and is a work in progress that still needs further selection. Sadly, that too is long overdue, since weather & mice destroyed my last two attempts.

The pea longevity is good news for the soup peas, because I can grow fewer but larger plantings... and maybe have enough to actually make a batch or two of soup, rather than just saving seed for preservation.

What a wonderful and rare collection of heirloom peas! I've not heard of many of those. I've planted this year Sugar Lace ll, possibly a selection of Sugar Lace. Not many sprouted from my store packet last year, but I saved what I could. This year I tried again and not many have sprouted. I'm beginning to think this one is very sensitive to cold; I dug around in the soil and found two peas that had rotted already, even in a greenhouse. I really like that pea but I'm now wondering if it's worth keeping at this one to get a seed supply.

A Purple Pod Parsley pea, wow! I hope you can keep that one going! I'm trying the green one this year, didn't know a purple one had been bred. I'm very curious to try this parsley leaf one out. So different than other peas. I tried both Novella and Snow Wind last year and loved them both. Snow Wind is possibly the best tasting steamed snow pea I've ever eaten. I'm also going to try this year Swedish Red soup pea (Biskopens), they look like little marbles of red clay. I feel like a kid in a candy store trying out all these new peas this year.

 

[Zeedman]

What a wonderful and rare collection of heirloom peas! I've not heard of many of those. I've planted this year Sugar Lace ll, possibly a selection of Sugar Lace. Not many sprouted from my store packet last year, but I saved what I could. This year I tried again and not many have sprouted. I'm beginning to think this one is very sensitive to cold; I dug around in the soil and found two peas that had rotted already, even in a greenhouse. I really like that pea but I'm now wondering if it's worth keeping at this one to get a seed supply.

My bad, I left off the Romans - mine is Sugar Lace II also. I love the variety, the snaps are large & high quality; but I too have noticed that it does poorly when Spring planted. Perhaps the high sugar content translates to weaker seed, as it does with supersweet corn? It does well for me when planted in warm soil for a Fall harvest, but even then the germination rate has been disappointing. It seems to have poor seed longevity as well.

Sugar Lace II was PVP when I first grew it, but given that it is now sold without the PVP label (which would be mandatory if the seed was still restricted), that patent may have expired. I'll begin saving my own seed, perhaps several generations of selection will improve its viability.

About Purple Pod Parsley. Dr, Kapular had several purple-podded breeding projects. One of those was a purple-podded snap pea, Sugar Magnolia. It is a hyper-tendril pea, so some of the leaflets have been replaced with extra tendrils, making it a strong climber (6-7' for me). This is an interesting snap pea that has fairly strong heat tolerance (when mulched & kept watered) and does well if Spring sown.

Dr. Kapular & Peace Seeds (now Peace Seedlings) developed a whole line of hyper-tendril peas which you might find interesting. They don't have much of an online presence, but you can view their seed list - with limited descriptions - here (scroll down most of the way to find peas):
Peace Seedlings

 

[Artichoke Lover]

@seedcorn has commented before on the importance of seed vigor, vs germination rate. An experience last year of one of my peppers was a good illustration of this. I planted some 2012 seed of "Pizza" pepper. With spotty germination only beginning 14 days later, I replanted with my limited supply of 2018 seed. That second planting germinated in 7 days. By the time both lots were transplanted, the second set - while germinating 7 days behind the first - had caught up to & surpassed the first planting.

I’ve certainly noticed a difference in some of my tomato seeds. I don’t plan on planting any over 3 years old anymore unless it’s for seed. The 4 year old seeds I’ve planted have had significantly lower yields and smaller plants compared to 1-3 year old seed.

 

[digitS']

This is an unfortunate situation with seed saving of ANY seed. What ArtichokeLover experiences may be anecdotal but that doesn't make it less real.

BTW, just looking through my warm-season seed box (and not getting any answer on my question of why a pepper variety was so slow to germinate [don't know which packet of seed i used ]) I see only Osborne Seed giving a germination rate with a date. Others may do that but it is un.com.mon! It still doesn't completely answer for the vigor of plants.

Steve