Soil building or soil depletion

[digitS']

Shoot.

Gardening as a Competitive Sport.

That's not why I garden. We all have our limitations and we should all have our boundaries. My fun in gardening, other than that I eat , has to do with varieties. It's seeing how the new fit in and welcoming back the old.

Others have different motivation. If you think about it, it is kinda cute to have a special feeding program for a tomato plant .. .

Steve

 

[ducks4you]

He said there is a danger of putting too much compost on. I am not going to worry about it. I am carrying on. This garden is now 6 years old and the last two years have been the best. I guess I really mulch most of this. I use half finished compost around plants. In the fall the compost and manure go on the ground and stays on top until spring. I am going to feed the soil like hoodat said.

Agreed.
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/growing-plants-out-of-a-compost-bin
All you need to do is to study up on how long it takes whatever manure you are using to decompose to a level that will not burn out your plants, although roses Love fresh horse manure. Most of us create our gardens either in our back, suburban yards, where the developers leveled out the soil and/or removed all topsoil and left (often) straight clay, or, like mine, former farm, where compaction and lack of amendment has also left hard clay or clayish soils. In some places the soil is just as hard, but has a lot of sand, so the problem is the same.
I'm not an advocate of bashing our human interaction with the environment. That being said, where we travelled, like The Oregon Trail, we have left semipermanent compaction. When we set apart a bed, and add compost every year, the soil can go back to layering itself.
Although I haven't been able to read it yet, Darwin wrote a book about soil creation by earthworms, based on his observation of the same over a period of years. I'm not sure that he had a thorough understanding about all of the forces that created soil, BUT, he did understand that we start with rock, broken down by water and acids to stones, and finally further broken down into dirt by the worms. MHO says that this discovery was far more important than his observation of adaptability of animals, now referred to as "evolution."
I heard recently that weeds, too, have their purpose because they keep any disturbed earth from washing away or blowing away, and I believe this, too.
Fortunately for US, we can handpull burdock leaves bc the leaves are good for your skin.

 

[ducks4you]

You may be interested in biochar....

http://www.biochar-international.org/biochar

http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/making-biochar-improve-soil-zmaz09fmzraw.aspx
http://biocharfarms.org/

Interesting articles. I think when my new firepit area (purchased firepit kit, ~4'x4', surrounded by 4' wide, so 12' x 12' when finished ALL MATERIALS PURCHASED, not completely assembled) is in this weekend, I should be able to start this. I have a bonfire pile that I add to for my "Salsa Party" in October can handle all of the weeds and stuff, bc I only want to prune and burn in my firepit. I'm going to feel positively suburban using this.
Seriously, I can remove chunks from this. Usually I burn to powdery ash. Still, all cold ashes can smother weeds. Everything has it's uses.

 

[Beekissed]

Read up on how they do it...it's not as simple as just using the charcoal from your firepit, though I wish it were. We have plenty of that. I've even tried the trench method in the garden and it had some affect, though I had only done it minimally.

To make biochar right in your gardens, start by digging a trench in a bed. (Use a fork to loosen the soil in the bottom of the trench and you’ll get the added benefits of this “double-digging” technique.) Then pile brush into the trench and light it. You want to have a fire that starts out hot, but is quickly slowed down by reducing the oxygen supply. The best way to tell what’s going on in a biochar fire is to watch the smoke. The white smoke, produced early on, is mostly water vapor. As the smoke turns yellow, resins and sugars in the material are being burned. When the smoke thins and turns grayish blue, dampen down the fire by covering it with about an inch of soil to reduce the air supply, and leave it to smolder. Then, after the organic matter has smoldered into charcoal chunks, use water to put out the fire. Another option would be to make charcoal from wood scraps in metal barrels.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-BioChar-and-Terra-Preta/

Materials:
55 Gallon Drum, with Lid
Drum sealing ring
Dry Biomass - usually wood & wood chips, or dung
water
compost

Tools
Hoe, rake, shovel
Dust mask, ear protection, eye protection
Heavy gloves, boots
Hose & nozzle
Metal cutting circ saw or hammer & chisel

 

[Gardening with Rabbits]

Shoot.

Gardening as a Competitive Sport.

That's not why I garden. We all have our limitations and we should all have our boundaries. My fun in gardening, other than that I eat , has to do with varieties. It's seeing how the new fit in and welcoming back the old.

Others have different motivation. If you think about it, it is kinda cute to have a special feeding program for a tomato plant .. .

Steve

This is why I garden too. I like a variety and things that I cannot buy in the store. I can stay in the garden ALL DAY and be happy. It is what I do. It is my hobby and I like talking about it with other people who enjoy it too. My best friend asked WHY did I plant so much basil and I said why not? I have several different kinds. I eat it, it is pretty, it smells good, I can dehydrate it, a package of seed is less than 1 basil plant to buy. Her husband said that I will be picking a lot of peppers and tomatoes and I said well I hope so!

 

[MontyJ]

Well, I started looking for answers and found Ruth Stout, which I had already heard about, but just found out she gardened NUDE, so why the heck would I listen to her. Saw her plant potatoes in a video and okay and if I was 87 and had a 40 x 50 garden then all that might be the answer. My neighbor that moved in is gardening. He is tilling this so called dirt and planting and has not added any compost or manure, nothing. He has a SECRET FORMULA. He mixes 3 ingredients. Listening to him talk about other things, I think he is talking about hydroponics and I goggled hydroponics and 3 ingredients and got Floragro, Florabloom, Floramicro and I am going to ask him if this is his secret, but he will mix me some and I do not want it, but he says watch his garden and if it grows I will want him to mix me some, but will not tell me what it is. I am trying to say no and be NICE about it. He looked at my compost that is half finished with HIS NOSE TURNED UP LOL and said I know you think this will be good for the soil, but he had a neighbor he said that used composted cow manure for years and had the best garden and one year nothing would grow and had it tested and needed lime. He is saying that will happen to me. I use compost made of leaves, rabbit manure, grass, hay, old plants like beans, tomatoes, coffee grounds, peelings and things like that, plus the pine kiln dried wood shavings soaked in rabbit urine. My question is compost from these things is a lot different than just going and getting a load of aged cow manure and fertilizing that way, correct? My garden is full of worms and should I just be happy and plant until disaster hits or take soil samples? What is the best way to keep your garden from having soil depletion?

I haven't had time to read this entire thread, but am posting in reply to the OP. I don't know what your neighbor is using, but hydroponics doesn't involve soil; it's a whole different growing medium. I can think of three ingredients that are of use to every garden, N-P-K. Yep, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. Do not fret about adding compost to your soil. Mother Nature has been doing it for millions of years in every possible soil condition and environment on the planet. That kind of success can't be ignored.

If your neighbor is using heavy chemical additions, I would bet your garden will alive and thriving long after his is long gone. He may have a great year or two, but relying strictly on chemical corrections will eventually lead to disaster. Well balanced soil (OM, micro/macro nutrients, pH) is the best way to go. All plants grow best in the soil that is balanced for their specific needs. Fortunately, most garden plants enjoy similar soil. Of course there are exceptions. Potatoes growing in soil for tomatoes won't do as well and vice-versa. Hydrangeas wont do well in a blueberry field either for that matter.
Just keep doing what you're doing. If you have earthworms and a healthy garden, you can't be doing too bad

 

[Beekissed]

Here's an interesting take on composting....

I've used urine before in my gardening, but as a side dressing and not on compost. After seeing this vid, I think it would be interesting to do a little experiment. I'm getting some square bales of mulch hay tomorrow for various purposes, one of which is to build me a raised bed in the garden space and fill with different materials for composting down for a spring planting.

Meanwhile, I think I could spare a bale of that to place in a spare garden cart of mine for my experiment. I currently have a son living on the premises for awhile who loves to pee outside of a morning...I'm going to see if I can harvest any of that liquid gold right into a waiting hay bale. If he's going to pee out there, it might as well be in a specific place that will yield something good, huh?

After it has become fully saturated, I could place that into the raised bed mix, spreading it out so that the whole bed could share in the goodness, then covering that over with more material.

What say you???

 

[Gardening with Rabbits]

What say you???

Kind of the idea of my rabbits and the urine soaked pine shavings. I can't believe I started this thread. I come up with some of the craziest questions. It was a week before my whole world changed and DH went to the ER and got his horrible diagnosis. My neighbor and his secret formula did not pan out so well for him. His garden was horrible that year in 2015. He made all that talk about the lady and cow manure and you know what he told me just a couple of months ago? He had the biggest and best tomatoes EVER this year and he thinks it is because of the COW MANURE he spread last spring. Lol. I told him that I think he is right.

 

[ducks4you]

Just some FYI that might surprise you:
http://www.cornandsoybeandigest.com...m=email&elq2=b1f8866848af44049ae648d881d864b3
"What is your definition for soil health?
Over the past several years, state and federal agencies and researchers have been trying to come up with a definition for soil health. The United States Department of Agriculture’s Natural Resources Conservation Service defines soil health as “the continued capacity of soil to function as a vital living ecosystem that sustains plants, animals, and humans.” Another definition that is embraced by many is the improved function in terms of crop yield response to inputs, such as fertilizer efficiency.

The challenge is that farmers, researchers and general homeowners could all view soil health differently because soil function means different things to them.To a farmer, the primary function of the soil could be to hold enough water, sustain enough nutrients and provide pest control to produce sustainable crops. To a soil microbiologist, the primary function of soil could be the media that provides food and shelter to soil organisms. To the general homeowner, the primary function of soil could be to provide the nutrients for their lawn and garden. So the question becomes which is correct and why? The answer to that question is not simple. I propose that the answer is that it depends on who you are and what you expect the soil to do for you.

Regardless of your definition of soil health, it is important that the soil biota is protected and nurtured. There are four ideas defined by USDA-NRCS that everyone should consider to ensure healthy soil biota:

1. Keep the soil covered as much as possible.
2. Disturb the soil as little as possible.
3. Keep plants growing throughout the year to feed the soil.
4. Diversify as much as possible using crop rotation and cover crops."

To learn more about how you can build up soil health visit the Soil Health Nexus or USDA-NRCS Soil Health site.

This article was published by Michigan State University Extension.

 

[flowerbug]

i can't remember where someone asked about crop rotation, but it can be a very important means of using minimal fertilizers (or none at all), because different crops from different plant families use somewhat different nutrients from the soil.

this is how i get along using only worm compost for the heaviest feeders during the first season and then after i will rotate plant in that same area different kinds of veggies. by the third or forth year it can use another helping. a fun aspect is that the garden soil still improves because i'm constantly thinking of how i can keep everything grown there in place (burying when it is done). using low-till/no-till, just scraping the surface clear of weeds when i need to, using green manures to supplement (alfalfa and clovers, chopped and put on as a mulch or just put on top of the existing mulches), amending with scrounged free organic materials. the worms and other bugs do their thing, the fungi get involved too. i'm glad when i see it all working together.

i'm seeing good things in return, i just wish i had more room around us to buffer from all the sprays the fields get around us.