A Seed Saver's Garden

[Ridgerunner]

BTW quick question. I appears that the one fruit on my surviving Darkest Night (that ultra-black tomato I found). has gotten BER. I'm not planning to remove it (since it is currently the only one there) and, when it is ready, I'll simply cut the bad part out. I assume that is OK. I mean, I'm fairly sure that the seeds in the non-rotted bit will be fine, but I want to double check that any tomato tissue that still looks good is still edible, so I can test in and find out what it actually tastes like (the original fruit went bad before I got around to eating any of it, so the taste is still and unknown.)

I think you're all good to collect seeds from your BER affected tomato; it is caused by a calcium deficiency (often brought on by a dry spell where water is unable to deliver the calcium) so no worries about pathogens. The seed will not be compromised because of BER.

I agree. BER is not a disease caused by a virus or fungus. The right amount or calcium does not make it to the fruit. It is possible that your soil may be calcium deficit, but that is usually not the problem. If your soil has some clay in it there is probably enough calcium. A good soils analysis will tell you. It should not hurt to add some calcium but that may not be the fix you need.

The problem is usually that it is dry so there is not enough water to carry sufficient calcium to the fruit. I've read that too much water can cause the same problem but I'd think if it is that wet you probably have other issues. If too dry is the issue the answer is to keep the soil damp enough. Try to avoid swings between damp and dry, If it rains you can't do much about wet, hopefully your soil drains. Mulch is often a big help as it slows evaporation and helps retain moisture.

The gut reaction to BER is to throw a lot of calcium at the problem. That's generally not the best solution, moisture control usually is. But that depends some on soil type. Sand does not hold moisture and will not have the minerals clay does so if your soil is mostly sand you may have a double whammy.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I agree. BER is not a disease caused by a virus or fungus. The right amount or calcium does not make it to the fruit. It is possible that your soil may be calcium deficit, but that is usually not the problem. If your soil has some clay in it there is probably enough calcium. A good soils analysis will tell you. It should not hurt to add some calcium but that may not be the fix you need.

The problem is usually that it is dry so there is not enough water to carry sufficient calcium to the fruit. I've read that too much water can cause the same problem but I'd think if it is that wet you probably have other issues. If too dry is the issue the answer is to keep the soil damp enough. Try to avoid swings between damp and dry, If it rains you can't do much about wet, hopefully your soil drains. Mulch is often a big help as it slows evaporation and helps retain moisture.

The gut reaction to BER is to throw a lot of calcium at the problem. That's generally not the best solution, moisture control usually is. But that depends some on soil type. Sand does not hold moisture and will not have the minerals clay does so if your soil is mostly sand you may have a double whammy.

I can pretty much bank on lack of water. That pot was filled at the start of the season with completely fresh potting/topsoil, so there should be no calcium deficiency yet, especially considering there are only two plants in it (the tomato, and the experiment bean.)

And, as I said, we had a TERRIBLE lack of rain for nearly a month (and aren't getting that much even now; most of the thunderstorms they predict seem to be missing us.)

By now, my dad and I are being a lot more diligent about keeping everything watered (the fact that we now have the hoses installed makes this a little easier.) So shouldn't have any problems down the road.

 

[Zeedman]

I think you're all good to collect seeds from your BER affected tomato; it is caused by a calcium deficiency (often brought on by a dry spell where water is unable to deliver the calcium) so no worries about pathogens. The seed will not be compromised because of BER.

Soil temperature may be a factor in BER as well - especially if tomatoes are grown in pots. I've attempted paste tomatoes in terra-cotta pots, and anything larger than a cherry had trouble with BER. The soil surface was mulched. The pots were kept watered, but I couldn't say for certain whether the problem was caused by heat or water issues. Both peppers and eggplant in the same pots were OK.

DD is having BER in her potted tomatoes, I recommended mulch, and a sun screen on the South side of the pots. Time will tell whether that results in an improvement.

 

[heirloomgal]

I agree. BER is not a disease caused by a virus or fungus. The right amount or calcium does not make it to the fruit. It is possible that your soil may be calcium deficit, but that is usually not the problem. If your soil has some clay in it there is probably enough calcium. A good soils analysis will tell you. It should not hurt to add some calcium but that may not be the fix you need.

The problem is usually that it is dry so there is not enough water to carry sufficient calcium to the fruit. I've read that too much water can cause the same problem but I'd think if it is that wet you probably have other issues. If too dry is the issue the answer is to keep the soil damp enough. Try to avoid swings between damp and dry, If it rains you can't do much about wet, hopefully your soil drains. Mulch is often a big help as it slows evaporation and helps retain moisture.

The gut reaction to BER is to throw a lot of calcium at the problem. That's generally not the best solution, moisture control usually is. But that depends some on soil type. Sand does not hold moisture and will not have the minerals clay does so if your soil is mostly sand you may have a double whammy.

Yes, so much great info in here @Ridgerunner. I haven't seen this issue much in my gardens, but it seems like many people who grow roma/sauce tomatoes get it. On a tomato forum there was a discussion about whether those type of tomatoes were prone to it because of the already dry texture, or if shape was more likely involved. The longer the tomato, the more problematic for BER. I still wonder which is more of an influence.

@Zeedman I think part of the trouble with pots can be it's an extreme environment - dry, hot, etc. Probably your summers are a bit hotter than mine as well. This year minus 2, all my tomatoes were in pots. I make a point to not prune them, messy as that is, to keep the pots shaded. Despite my helpers being a bit unmotivated at times for their watering duties, so far no BER. I'd love to have a bottom watering system for outdoor plants. Plants hold the water at least 3 times longer, that might reduce BER incidence. I used a kiddie pool a few times this year to soak pots.

 

[heirloomgal]

More troubling news in a possible looming food crisis. 30 countries now have put into place export ban's, over concerns of global shortages on the horizon. Wheat, sugar, vegetable oil, maize. And the war in Ukraine is not to blame. The growing, harvesting & moving of wheat etc. to wherever it needs to be is part of the problem. Cost of energy, fuel is a driver. Canada ranks quite high after the top 4 countries as a wheat producer (relatively speaking in a global context) - easy to see how the accelerated war on presently viable energy is leading us toward vulnerability. It's like there is a concerted struggle against the means of production, as well as producers. Food growers in particular have been singled out - strangely. Adding to this the new mandates limiting nitrogen application and a recipe for us as a failed wheat producer is imminent. Gov market interference in the form of export bans etc. has a historical record of exacerbating crisis generally. In this case, further driving up the cost of foodstuffs globally.

It is definitely a good time to save seeds. Lots of them. It's not a guarantee of anything, but it might make a difference some day if you need them. The battle against having a 'carbon footprint' may be won, but there may not be much to eat afterward.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

It is definitely a good time to save seeds. Lots of them. It's not a guarantee of anything, but it might make a difference some day if you need them. The battle against having a 'carbon footprint' may be won, but there may not be much to eat afterward.

Fine if they let us, but I suspect that, the shorter the supplies of food get, the more rules those in power will make to make sure they are the only ones in control of the food supply. Remember, at least half of this is probably on purpose, they WANT the public to be desperate, so they stay dependent. Export bans are likely to be followed with rules on who WITHIN the country you can sell to (read: the government and it's approved vendors alone, and, ultimately, national confiscation of food supplies to build up a "strategic reserve." to keep everyone "safe" (and in the government's hand.)

 

[flowerbug]

Yes, so much great info in here @Ridgerunner. I haven't seen this issue much in my gardens, but it seems like many people who grow roma/sauce tomatoes get it. On a tomato forum there was a discussion about whether those type of tomatoes were prone to it because of the already dry texture, or if shape was more likely involved. The longer the tomato, the more problematic for BER. I still wonder which is more of an influence.

you look like you have really good garden soil there which would be a major improvement for root development. i'm pretty sure that most of my BER comes about because the soil here is mostly clay and doesn't percolate water quickly and the root systems have to struggle to grow fast enough for when the heat arrives.

in the past the BER shows up on the earliest tomatoes and then does not show up again. but this is avoided if i can water enough to keep enough moisture in the soil and also when i put the plants down deeper so they have more root system development.

this season the tomato plants are growing in my previous tulip patch which has a lot more sandy soil and so not as much clay. still not the best soil (it needs a lot more organic material added) but it has had about 700lbs of worms/worm castings added to it over the past 7 years and that has made a large difference in the quality of what will grow (and how those plants look in comparison to some other places i grow things). it just takes time...

no initial BER on any tomatoes this season. none at all. some signs of a few tomatoes having a larger spot on the bottom of the tomato, but no actual rot. i'll be picking again in a few moments so i'll get a chance to go through them all again. my guess right now is that i won't find any BER at all. it's been raining and i've been watering consistently enough (not as much as was really needed but close enough).

my biggest mistake this past summer was having someone else watering a few times. they didn't get enough water on the gardens which means some results aren't going to be very good quality.

 

[Dahlia]

Seed saving is an essential part of my garden and garden activities. For several years now I have been growing, on a bit of a focus rotation, a number of different vegetables, and flowers, to build a 'seed ark'. Heirloom tomatoes, peppers, beans and peas have been the main crops, but I've also experimented with some unusual plants like morelle de balbis, Job's tears, spilanthes, sorghum, roselle, papalo, ashwaghanda, and cotton. I'm especially curious about unusually coloured vegetables, or those with unique growing habits, like velvet & variegated foliage tomatoes, purple potatoes or golden snow peas. However, I still hold a deep affection and appreciation for the 'old favourites' like Nantes carrots, Blue Lake beans or Bonnie Best tomatoes. New or old, I enjoy delicious and beautiful garden plants and vegetables.

In any summer, I'll choose a few different vegetables or flowers and try many different varieties. I'll grow anywhere from 10 to 100 different varieties of that crop to see the differences in their tastes, performance and productivity. Along with the 4 main seed saving crops I mentioned above, I've done trials of carrots, patty pan squash, pumpkins, zucchini, lettuce varieties, morning glories, basil, swiss chard, spinach, leeks, nigellas, watermelons, sunflowers, wild (er) type eggplants, kale, English sweet pea flowers, potatoes, poppies and beets.

This year I'm focusing mainly on beans for both fresh and dry use, but also peppers and peas.
We're only just beginning the season, but here are a few photos for 2021!

'Livingston's Pie Squash'
View attachment 41178

'Amarillo Armadillo' Tomato (with eggshell fragments on top)
View attachment 41179

'Blue Jade' dwarf corn
View attachment 41180

'Red Emmalie', 'Amarosa', 'Purple Magic'and 'Peruvian Purple' potatoes
View attachment 41181View attachment 41182

'Alba Regia' bell pepper
View attachment 41183

Black sesame seed plants
View attachment 41184

'Bullnose' pepper
View attachment 41185

'Petite Yellow' watermelon
View attachment 41186

"Genovese' sweet basil
View attachment 41187

Your garden looks beautiful heirloomgal!

Seed saving is an essential part of my garden and garden activities. For several years now I have been growing, on a bit of a focus rotation, a number of different vegetables, and flowers, to build a 'seed ark'. Heirloom tomatoes, peppers, beans and peas have been the main crops, but I've also experimented with some unusual plants like morelle de balbis, Job's tears, spilanthes, sorghum, roselle, papalo, ashwaghanda, and cotton. I'm especially curious about unusually coloured vegetables, or those with unique growing habits, like velvet & variegated foliage tomatoes, purple potatoes or golden snow peas. However, I still hold a deep affection and appreciation for the 'old favourites' like Nantes carrots, Blue Lake beans or Bonnie Best tomatoes. New or old, I enjoy delicious and beautiful garden plants and vegetables.

In any summer, I'll choose a few different vegetables or flowers and try many different varieties. I'll grow anywhere from 10 to 100 different varieties of that crop to see the differences in their tastes, performance and productivity. Along with the 4 main seed saving crops I mentioned above, I've done trials of carrots, patty pan squash, pumpkins, zucchini, lettuce varieties, morning glories, basil, swiss chard, spinach, leeks, nigellas, watermelons, sunflowers, wild (er) type eggplants, kale, English sweet pea flowers, potatoes, poppies and beets.

This year I'm focusing mainly on beans for both fresh and dry use, but also peppers and peas.
We're only just beginning the season, but here are a few photos for 2021!

'Livingston's Pie Squash'
View attachment 41178

'Amarillo Armadillo' Tomato (with eggshell fragments on top)
View attachment 41179

'Blue Jade' dwarf corn
View attachment 41180

'Red Emmalie', 'Amarosa', 'Purple Magic'and 'Peruvian Purple' potatoes
View attachment 41181View attachment 41182

'Alba Regia' bell pepper
View attachment 41183

Black sesame seed plants
View attachment 41184

'Bullnose' pepper
View attachment 41185

'Petite Yellow' watermelon
View attachment 41186

"Genovese' sweet basil
View attachment 41187

You have a beautiful garden heirloomgal!

 

[heirloomgal]

Thank you @Dahlia

 

[heirloomgal]

Nicotiana seeds. Problem - they stick all over the surface of the pods!