n95 dust masks

[Ridgerunner]

Very well said. As always you can find something to nitpick about but overall a good summary. There is a lot still unknown about this disease but we are still in early days. It hasn't been around that long, in some ways we've learned a lot in a short time. As people that grow things we should understand that many thing do not happen immediately. You don't plant a seed one day and know the next whether that species or variety will thrive in your area. It will take time for our understanding of this virus to grow and mature. As it is we are making decisions on what information we think we have. Hindsight will be great but you don't use that to make decisions.

If the economy is opened up before testing, treatment, or adequate amounts of PPE are available, the increase in hospitalizations will quickly exceed our medical capacity in some areas.

This is one part that concerns me greatly. It's not so much the high probability of skyrocketing deaths. Don't get me wrong. Those deaths would almost certainly include my mother, sister-in-law, and my wife's sister-in-law. It would be very personal. But what I envision with our medical facilities overwhelmed is a medieval situation where people are basically stacked up like cord wood and left to die. Can't treat them, can't really comfort them. Just let them suffer and die. To me, that is unacceptable as a plan to go forward.

The economic concerns are also valid. We can't be a strong country if we don't have the economy to support it. I don't know how a lot of people are getting by without a paycheck, that's suffering too. One concern is that people are going to start to get really hungry, that can turn ugly fast. If my kids couldn't eat I might do something desperate. A lot of companies, big and small, are going to go bankrupt. Something will rise from those ashes but we don't know what that will look like. What kind of changes to the supply chain will we see? Global political and economic changes? Change can be pretty nasty, things may get really rough there.

I agree, there is no good answer. You make the best decision you can with the information you have.

 

[Dirtmechanic]

 

[seedcorn]

Except we are talking about a virus that does not work like pee. Thought it was funny though. For the individual that put that together, HERE IS YOUR SIGN.....

 

[Dirtmechanic]

Except we are talking about a virus that does not work like pee. Thought it was funny though. For the individual that put that together, HERE IS YOUR SIGN.....

Well then it most assuredly acts like a pollen so we'all still get the idea! Birmingham passed a mask law so explaining this is gonna be interesting.

 

[seedcorn]

Here is dilemma. We currently have nothing to control this virus (or anything close in terms of time). We have a bunch of hosts for this virus-those that have it. We also have a HUGE number of potential “hosts”-those that are negative. Currently,we understand that heat/sun will not kill or slow this down. The only hope to avoid getting this is to isolate yourself from humanity-not an option for most of us. So the question for most of us is, when will we get it, not will we. Now the argument can be made in severity comparing getting it from someone deathly ill vs a recovered person. Why I believe those “sick” stay home.

 

[Dirtmechanic]

Here is dilemma. We currently have nothing to control this virus (or anything close in terms of time). We have a bunch of hosts for this virus-those that have it. We also have a HUGE number of potential “hosts”-those that are negative. Currently,we understand that heat/sun will not kill or slow this down. The only hope to avoid getting this is to isolate yourself from humanity-not an option for most of us. So the question for most of us is, when will we get it, not will we. Now the argument can be made in severity comparing getting it from someone deathly ill vs a recovered person. Why I believe those “sick” stay home.

I will agree and disagree with you on your several points;

We currently have nothing to control this virus (or anything close in terms of time). We have a bunch of hosts for this virus-those that have it. We also have a HUGE number of potential “hosts”-those that are negative.

Yep I agree, we can only demonstrate several medicine that castrate the virus and as a mechanism must be administered early. Also you left off animal and pet vectors.



Currently,we understand that heat/sun will not kill or slow this down.

Nope, its protein and a fat skin, so this fear is off a bit. Well rendered boston butt bbq is addictive, but no longer infective. The virus is not a mineral, and able to handle many hundreds of degrees therefore.


The only hope to avoid getting this is to isolate yourself from humanity-not an option for most of us.

A real issue, I agree.

So the question for most of us is, when will we get it, not will we.

Agree, and thankfully properly tested medicines have only recently become known to us.


Now the argument can be made in severity comparing getting it from someone deathly ill vs a recovered person.

Disagree; the recovery person is actually like a face mask in social function. It will be at least minimally less virulent. This is the arena of herd immunity. Recovered people simply conduct less electricity for the virus (at its current flow rate). It is doubtful it could overcome open social standards unless you concentrate it like a battery or capacitor could, say a sports venue or resturant.


Why I believe those “sick” stay home.

Agree; plus I have really enjoyed the time off.

 

[valley ranch]

There are 6 six states that didn't submit to martial Law ~ with no upward swing in sickness ~ do you think you haven't already been exposed to this or all the other virus that we import ~ some think you have ~ Communists can't run our country as well as we can ~ Let's go back to work ~ everyone ~ of course if you wanna stay home that's fine ~ wear a mask ~ sure ~ gloves ~ go ahead ~ but restore Freedom of Assembly ~ open everything ~ Churches ~ barber shops ~ salon and Saloon ~ no one will be forced to go ```

 

[Zeedman]

@Zeedman Are you saying my comment to @baymule about keeping up was out of line? (Again no emojis)

Agree with most except that deaths would skyrocket or hospitals over run if economy opened up. This is theory. As of now, hospitals are ghost towns with personnel being laid off due to reduced patients. One thing history has told us is that all infectious diseases (unless you can get rid of source) will run their course. Shutting down the USA has not slowed down the spread as much as there are more infected thus fewer to infect. We need people who are actively sick (no matter what reason) to stay home-like that is going to happen.

Not directed toward you at all, @seedcorn . The good natured ribbing that goes on between long-time acquaintances here is part of what makes this community fun. Participating in this forum is like having a back yard barbecue with friends, where all are treated with respect. It is only derogatory or insulting statements and personal attacks which can be divisive. It was not my intent to target or draw attention to anyone in particular, but only to caution against strong emotions (that can be evoked by topics like this) spiraling into incivility. Politics has that effect on people,.

The thing about the empty hospitals, is that in many cases, that situation was artificially imposed upon them by fiat. Such is to be expected when governments and administrators tell doctors & hospitals that all non-emergency and elective procedures are suspended, to conserve resources for COVID-19. That policy is understandable, in dense metropolitan areas where conditions (such as mass transit) promote rapid spread... but not for much of the country, where the infection rate is low, and the system is not overburdened. One size does not fit all, and if hospitals are allowed to manage their operations based upon local conditions, the healthcare system should begin returning to normal. IMO the emergency declarations that took control away from localities to manage their resources appropriately should be scaled back, to allow oversight, but not control.

As far as deaths skyrocketing, that potential is still there. That has been very apparent here, where over 200 people in one meat packing plant - and even more who they associate with - have tested positive. That was an "essential" facility; and as recent national news has been reporting, not an isolated incident. Of course, testing positive doesn't automatically equate to fatalities, but it does indicate how rapidly the disease can spread when uncontrolled... and a percentage of those infected will require hospitalization. What is not being widely reported is the average hospitalization period required by COVID patients, but local reports seem to indicate very long treatments. That is one of the missing data points that should be given more attention, when planning where we go from here.

 

[valley ranch]

In the Six states where they did not shut down and run and hide ~ Sickness did not skyrocket as was predicted ~ in states where people were forbidden to open business and forced to stay home ~ it has gone up ~ so there is no reason ~ to continue following a theory and putting martial law in effect ```

Everyone may to stay or go ~ wear helmets if we want ~ they're selling plastic glass face masks now ` come or go or not go as we please ~ but Restore Freedom of Assembly ~ it's not a holy day of obligation if someone doesn't want to come to the country or party ~ stay home or six or seven feet away from everything ~ we already wash our hands ~ continue ```

God bless you and yours let US go to the park and play tennis

 

[seedcorn]

Disagree; the recovery person is actually like a face mask in social function. It will be at least minimally less virulent. This is the arena of herd immunity. Recovered people simply conduct less electricity for the virus (at its current flow rate). It is doubtful it could overcome open social standards unless you concentrate it like a battery or capacitor could, say a sports venue or resturant.
Dirt, think we are in agreement. I had a long day trying to explain to a female intern that sitting on her @$$ while we worked was NOT her job. What I explained WAS her job, made her mad. Gave her 2 choices, do it or quit. She didn’t like that either.......
Zeed, I was just giving you crap. Agree, being able to use sarcasm among fellow members makes this board special (as well as garden topics). Enjoy a good discussion until insults fly. Then I’m done, maybe to the point I block them. Tyson shut down here because of high infection rate. I’m good with that. Problem is that some are callIng in sick that just want the benefits of Coronavirus but are healthy.