One thing people don't usually know.

[heirloomgal]

I have to admit, when I read the title of this thread
"One thing people don't usually know"
My first thought was... there's only one???

What we really need is more perma-families.

 

[flowerbug]

i can always appreciate changes for the better.


Restoring Dixie Creek:

 

[secuono]

Why do the sites keep getting abandon?
He gave up, realized its not working well enough, money?

 

[flowerbug]

Why do the sites keep getting abandon?
He gave up, realized its not working well enough, money?

he's not the owner of either site.

i don't know the full details on the smaller site out in the middle of nowhere, but he was paid to do the initial designs as a consultant and i think he went back a few years later and they were not following his instructions on how to manage the site. the other part of why that one was likely abandoned is that they stopped having the backpressure extra water from the well available so they weren't able to keep irrigating the areas where they were growing crops for cash. so i would guess that without getting an immediate return enough for them plus not wanting to put in or keep a well just for that little site they let it go. still it is there, there are plants growing, so they're established and providing habitat and shade to the surrounding space.

the larger site i just haven't seen any information on how that was installed or if they are maintaining it or just letting it go back to whatever happens.

the problem with the videos they've posted on the sites they don't give a wide enough shot of the whole thing so you're not sure which site they're at (the smaller one or the larger).

i'd like a lot more information on both sites but there's scarce to be found that is recent. the one more recent video i did find was posted years ago and i can't determine if it is the smaller or larger site.

the site he does own is doing pretty well and is covered and growing. it makes a lot of difference when you can have enough people visit and provide water, fertilizer and labor. previous to this site they had another and what some people called the original Greening the Desert site but they did not own it or have control over what happened to it. the people who were maintaining it were not following the design plan - the basics of permaculture in an arid climate doesn't involve burning any field debris as long as the native plants or annuals don't need it it is a very wasteful practice. instead all that organic material should be used as mulch and windbreaks and shading the ground.

i'd love to visit all these places and check them out. it's all interesting to me. just yesterday i was looking at a video of restoration plantings done in the dried out bed of the southern part of the Aral Sea (that used to be there but has since been dried up and turned into some areas of salt flats which they want to stablize to keep the pollution from blowing around). it's another pretty arid climate but they have been able to get some plants growing and seeded some grasses and wildlife has started using these small patches as places to live. as soon as you can get some wildlife activities that is a good sign that the area can support life and diversity often improves from there.

 

[flowerbug]

here are other sites that i follow through the years - all interesting because they are in different places and are of different ages.


Sadhana Forest in Haiti:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

the Haiti site shows that the problem in that whole area is not the climate or lack of rain, but the lack of topsoil retention and the destruction of what used to be rainforest. restoring the area by planting trees and using basic permaculture techniques has made a clearly seen difference.


SF India (i think this is the oldest place they started):

Sadhana Forest Villa · Maldevta tehri road, Dubra Village, Maldevta Road, Uttarakhand 248195, India

âââââ · Homestay

www.google.com

SF Kenya (the newest site):

Sadhana Forest Kenya · C78, Kisima, Kenya

âââââ · Non-profit organization

www.google.com

within a few years they've got the area fenced off and you can see the difference in ground cover already. the classic arid climate issue of over grazing is visible even to a satellite pic.

 

[flowerbug]

i didn't want to start a new thread so i'll just put this here as yet another example of how diversity is important:

A keystone gene underlies the persistence of an experimental food web​

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abf2232

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I have had mixed feelings about permaculture.

We once had a gardener on TEG with a strong feeling towards the practice. One might even say arrogant . Someone would comment on their bountiful or long season of harvest and he was like, "if you think that amounts to something ..." Then, he would comment on a perennial. I remember having to restrain myself and not say, "but, I don't like to eat that!"

Much of my resistance to permaculture has to do with that GOOPP gardening mentioned in my post in the "what did you do" thread. When it is not my property, and I don't have much room at home, I don't feel it's possible to grow most perennials. So, it's limitations, experience, and food preferences. BTW, there are some real nice new apple varieties in our markets .

Steve

Reminds me of someone back on Homegrown Goodness. They literally couldn't see a thread without trying to twist it back to their own land and growing season, whether the thread had anything to do with that or not. If someone asked about a given variety, he would chime in about how his different variety (or even different vegetable) was doing for him. He seemed to be intent on making every thread about his work and his work alone.

He also got me a bit mad when, during a homesteading thread, I mentioned how a source of salt would be a limiting factor for any group trying to maintain total sustainability and he said, more or less "No it wouldn't be, because I have a steady supply of salt. And since I don't have the problem, it does not exist for anyone." I wanted to yell out "Are you planning to supply salt to everyone in the WORLD? Not everyone LIVES where you do! You think you have solved all of your homesteading problems, that's lovely. Then, except when you actually HAVE some advice, instead of self-congratulations, BE QUIET and let the rest of us work out ours!"

 

[digitS']

Northern Utah

?

 

[flowerbug]

Northern Utah

?

i should have looked a bit further as the article i saw (via slashdot) had more information in a more general reading level and not an abstract:


"
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Scientific American: Some species play an outsize role in the environment they inhabit. Beavers build dams that create ponds where fish thrive. Otters in kelp forests eat enough sea urchins so that the kelp can grow without being gobbled up first. These so-called keystone species hold their ecosystem together. But what if ecosystems not only hinge on a single species but can be made or broken by a single gene? In a study published on Thursday in Science, researchers have demonstrated the existence of what they call a "keystone gene." The discovery may have implications for how scientists think about the ways ecosystems, and the species in them, persist over time.

In the lab, the researchers built several miniature ecosystems that consisted of just four species each. At the bottom of the food chain was Arabidopsis thaliana, a small annual plant that is a favorite study organism among biologists (its genome was sequenced more than 20 years ago). In each ecosystem, the plant served as food for two species of aphids, which in turn fed a parasitoid wasp. Each bread-box-sized ecosystem contained multiple Arabidopsis plants. In some systems, the plants were genetically identical -- a monoculture. In others, genetic variations were introduced by turning on and off three genes -- MAM1, AOP2 and GSOH -- in various combinations.The researchers focused on these genes because they maintain the production of compounds called aliphatic glucosinolates, which protect the plant by deterring hungry aphids. Some of the experimental ecosystems had more variation in the number of genetic combinations than others; the researchers watched to see how well plants, aphids and wasps would coexist in each scenario.

As the team expected, the ecosystems with more genetically diverse plants turned out to be more stable. For each plant with a different genetic makeup that the researchers added to the mix, the insects' extinction rate fell by nearly 20 percent, compared with monocultures. But what stunned the researchers was that this result seemed to hinge on a single gene. Regardless of diversity, if systems contained plants with a certain variant, or allele, of the AOP2 gene, the extinction rate of the insects decreased by 29 percent, compared with systems without it. Essentially, if you change that AOP2 allele, you lose the insects. Increasing genetic diversity helped the insects because it increased the likelihood of the aphids encountering plants with this one critical gene variant. [...] Also surprising was the mechanism by which the AOP2 allele impacted the aphids. Although the variant changed the way a plant produced its aphid-deterring compound, it also allowed the plant to grow faster. This in turn allowed the aphids, as well as the wasps that relied on them for food, to become larger faster."

 

[flowerbug]

Reminds me of someone back on Homegrown Goodness. They literally couldn't see a thread without trying to twist it back to their own land and growing season, whether the thread had anything to do with that or not. If someone asked about a given variety, he would chime in about how his different variety (or even different vegetable) was doing for him. He seemed to be intent on making every thread about his work and his work alone.

He also got me a bit mad when, during a homesteading thread, I mentioned how a source of salt would be a limiting factor for any group trying to maintain total sustainability and he said, more or less "No it wouldn't be, because I have a steady supply of salt. And since I don't have the problem, it does not exist for anyone." I wanted to yell out "Are you planning to supply salt to everyone in the WORLD? Not everyone LIVES where you do! You think you have solved all of your homesteading problems, that's lovely. Then, except when you actually HAVE some advice, instead of self-congratulations, BE QUIET and let the rest of us work out ours!"

some of us work in mysterious ways...