Ripoff ?

[Jared77]

Those people who choose to eat the sugar, artificial sweeteners, dye, artificial flavors, preservatives, and overly processed products of things grown with chemicals that pass for 'food' today may be saving money on a weekly basis, but how many of them instead pay--or will pay in the end--the pharmaceutical companies and doctors to treat their cancer, diabetes, heart problems, obesity?

Has current farming practices been proven to show a direct correlation to these conditions?

How much of it is lifestyle? How much of these things are due to a lack of portion control? A sedentary lifestyle? Unhealthy cooking techniques?

It seems to me that most people who are cautious of what they eat tend to be more active in general. Even if it's simple stuff like working in the garden and fencing to their animals. Let alone going to the gym or making a conscious effort to exercise.

Are there any studies between a healthy diet and quality of health vs the same diet but with only organic versions to compare? That way the variable is the organic component.

I have a hard time believing that if I had layers and collected an egg from a free range layer that's fed a commercial diet it would be less nutritious than a free range layer that is fed an organic diet.

 

[baymule]

I am finding out that people in my area want non GMO, organic food. And they are willing to pay for it. I plan on developing a CSA, it will take me several growing seasons, but the customers are here.

 

[Just-Moxie]

Our little flock of 29 ...I buy non-medicated layer feed, use fermented feed process, supplement their nutrition with fresh greens from the gardens, kitchen peelings, some scratch feed, recycled egg shells with added oyster shell, any crawling or flying critters that cannot escape their beaks, fresh air and sunshine and plenty of fresh well water.
My hens do not lay certified stamped Organic eggs....but they are far better for us nutritionally than the store bought commercial ones.
And...healthy does not imply cheaper. We know they cost more, with all the other over head costs. But it is worth it.
DH, his folks, as well as his siblings, all have pretty severe food sensitivities. As well as other issues. Theirs were probably environmentally caused by where they were living in the mid to late 50's up to the 90's...when DH and his folks relocated to SC. His brother ended up with cancer that killed him at 22. His 2 sisters have other health issues.
DH's folks could probably feel better if they switched to organic on some things....but it is not something they would start doing now...in their 70's.
As for myself and DH....we are not into "organic"...nor "vegetarian".....we just try to make the best choices for what we do consume. And make changes where we can. Or delete the consumption of other items.

 

[catjac1975]

My sister is a nurse in a school system. The number of very sick children is staggering. She has been a nurse for 40 years and she is shocked by it all.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'm certainly not organic either, certified or otherwise. I'm not opposed to using miticides, insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, or other pesticides where I deem it appropriate. I don't really care if the pesticide is "organic", "natural", or not. I read the labels and make my decisions. The Spinosad label reads really well as far as withdrawal times and it happens to be organic. Doesn't matter, I'll use it anyway when I deem it appropriate.

Any wood that touches the ground is going to be treated. I use a lot of compost for fertilizer but I'll use chemical fertilizers also to supplement if I feel I need to. No way am I close to being organic in any legal sense of the word. But I try hard to avoid using any of these unless I deem them appropriate and I try very hard to limit the impact. Watch when and where you use them, chose appropriate for the application, use enough to do the job but don't saturate the area, and try very hard to not get any of them on the stuff I actually eat.

If someone else feels that organic is better and is willing to pay the price, I consider that to be their business. I don't consider that ripping them off. If they care to (and maybe they have) they can do any research they want and make any decision they want. If they are willing to pay the price and someone is willing to provide that to them at that price that's a personal decision. I'm not on any campaign to say that one specific way is better than the other.

If someone wants to pay extra because it is "certified organic", that's their business. If someone wants to pay a lot more to get a food processor that is going to break down pretty soon anyway just because it has a famous chef's name on it, that's their business. If someone else wants to pay more to get a company's name on their clothes that's their business, but I'm old enough to remember when companies would pay you to advertise for them, not you pay extra so you can advertise for them.

 

[TheSeedObsesser]

My sister is a nurse in a school system. The number of very sick children is staggering. She has been a nurse for 40 years and she is shocked by it all.

I spent the first decade or so of my life back and forth from the hospital and got sick very easily. I had breathing problems, diseases, skin conditions, infections, etc. I was taken from public school and my mom decided to stop giving me vaccines, the preservatives and unnecessary crap were taken out of my diet as well as processed food, we went organic - and now I'm one of the healthiest people out there. Asthma and breathing problems in general used to be a huge problem for me - now I can easily walk over 20m in one trip, I can run very fast and I can sustain that speed for a long distance even uphill if I'm wearing good shoes, I can hold my breath for a long time while swimming. I can do all kinds of stuff that I couldn't do before. It might not have turned out the same way for anybody else - but it's defiantly a sign that something is wrong if you ask me.

 

[bobm]

Bob, even though your message is very subtle, do I detect a slight bias against everything that carries the organic terminology?

I wonder what exactly it costs you to roll your eyes, walk past that display and on to the conventional eggs.

Or maybe you just wanted to get an argument going with the people on here who are inclined to be in favor of organic labeling?

NOPE !!! When one has a fixed income vs. what the "organic" price is ... easy choice to buy the commercially grown eggs , then being able to buy any other grocery item to go along with the eggs like bacon for instance ( also NON " organic" ) to keep the costs down. I either grow my own or buy non- processed foods. Has anyone seen the cattle out on pasture or on the mountain range lands .? They too are grass fed for most of their lives , then are brought to feed lots to finish on alfalfa hay and grains . Much better flavor and much more juicy. The only time antibiotics are given is when a cow / steer / bull is ill. ( Last time that I checked ... antibiotics are not cheap to just run around and give them to all animals in the herd. Makes NO economic sense ) ! Then when the withdrawal time is over, there is NO antibiotic left in the meat. In this day and age NOT vaccinating against diseases which eliminates animal suffering and death and allows the diseases to not only to spread to the rest of the herd and one's neighbors is just plain poor animal husbandry. So why should I buy a " grass fed "/ "organic " steak or hamburger that is lesser quality and tougher but cost more just because it is touted to be " grass fed" / "organic" ? Why should I condone this type of practice by rewarding them with a higher price ? If one thinks that the "organic" higher priced piece of meat or egg is somehow better , it's your choice, go for it !

So , basically ... poor animal husbandry as well as / or poor agricultural practices that continues to spread disease and excessive death of their livestock and/ or their agricultural products in their zeal for a utopian ideal which translates to the customers have to pay much higher prices for the "organic " products that manage to survive ??? Why ??? Here I thought that the owner of a business makes a profit for their good work and quality products or suffers any and all losses resulting from their actions ?

Going back to the agricultural dark ages is not a noble way to raise one's animals or crops. When one refuses to use antibiotics and vaccines and other agricultural sprays , fertilizers, etc. that offers better quality of life by lessening suffering from pathogens to one's animals, fowl, fish, crops and land . ... poor husbandry at the least , animal cruelty at it's worst.

 

[so lucky]

Just the fact that there are so many people to feed makes the logistics of anything close to "organic" for everyone nearly impossible.
But we are talking about at least two separate things here:
1: Organic vs. non-organic produce, whether meat, dairy, grain or vegetable.
2: The creation of "food" that really isn't food, but a combination of substances extracted from corn and cotton and wood and wheat and soy and sugar beets, fancied up with artificial colors and flavors, with chemical nutrients mixed in.

Even these boundaries are clouded, the further we get from the garden.

I don't expect us to be able to provide fresh organic food to the whole world, but it would be nice if the food that is available was actually food, and not some distant third cousin twice removed.

 

[flowerweaver]

Just for the record, I am not certified organic, I just raise them that way and the people who buy from me trust me and visit the birds frequently enough to see how they are treated and kept. I feel the certification process, which cost about $500 the last I checked a decade ago, was concocted by big ag to weed out the small producers such as myself.

Bob, I would not say that anything about how I raise my chickens is 'poor husbandry', nor have I seen it in other local organic producers with whom I am friends that produce goat and beef meat. Their places are neat as a pin and their animals in tip-top shape. My 50 chickens live in two coops that give them about 10 square feet each, which is way more than any commercial chicken. So even if the weather doesn't allow them to free range they are content. Their bedding is cleaned regularly because it is the main source of my composting. They have plenty of ventilation, and have remained quite healthy. I puff them with diatomaceous earth each spring to take off any parasites they might have.

Once in nearly a decade I had a young hen prolapse on an egg and it went to the vet like any household pet, and is still alive and laying five years later. I had one rooster die of gapeworm, which comes from eating an infected earthworm, and I spent $150 to have a necropsy to learn this. Now I know how to check their throats for this, and saved another rooster with a treatment. Because I know their individual personalities and I am able to pick up all my poultry and easily handle them--because they've been raised that way--I am able to quickly see if there are any problems arising. This all takes time. Big ag, even big ag organic can't do this.

Because I am selling eggs, not meat, I worm one coop each year in the winter when laying has slowed so that there are always some eggs in production. The normal withholding time is 21 days but I usually feed those eggs to the dogs for two months before they go back to people's tables, as it also helps worm the dogs. I cannot speak for those organic practices who raise meat birds.

I do agree that there's more to one's health than just diet. Like SeedO's testament, our health and vitality has been directly correlated to how we eat, and the exercise we get growing our own food. I have long outlived both my biological parents. I have seen the transformation of many locals and friends who have embraced such a dietary change. Our friends and family who eat the standard fare have multiple health issues and are taking a myriad of expensive pharmaceuticals to make up for it. I don't need studies to prove what I have observed over the past decades.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Flower, are you really worming the dogs or are you introducing just enough to help develop a wormer resistant worm? Dosage is important. You might want to think about that. I don't see anything wrong with feeding those eggs to the dogs, but you might want to actually up the dosage enough to really worm them instead of depending on the residue. Something you might want to consider.

A few years back Seed used the phrase that true organic is not a set of rules but is a way of life. I liked that phrase.